Dear Swamin: your thanks are due to HIM only, not to adiyEn. Adiyen is poor in sampradhAyam knowledge and jn~aanam. Adiyen always prays for HIS krupA and HIS bhaagavada sampandham. senthil.b --- pratyagatma <kannan_mukundam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear Senthil, > > Thank you very much to spend your time to > enlighten me. > > Yes, I got the answers to all of my doubtm, and > now my ignorance > is removed. > > I got the answer for even Bhagavata Shlokas, > where Shiva was > praised during churning of milk ocean (Those > prasings were by > Devathas and just to make him ready for swallowing > the poison, and > whatever the Puranic statemnt contradicts with > Shruthi is not the > valid truth.) > > And I came to know that Rudra is also a jeeva (his > sinful birth > stated by Sathapatha Brahmana and many other > Upanishads cleared > that .) > > There are many quotes in Upanishds which reveal > Narayana as > paramAtma (and the NArAyaNa can't be associated with > any other deity > other than Lakshmi pathy as per Panini grammar, this > is enough to > refute all other vadaas). > > Bhallaveya Shrthi is very clear that mentions all > names are > primarily belong to Vishnu , so wherever Shruthi > explains Brahman > with other > names(Rudra,Shamhu,Shiva,Indra,Hiranyagarbha etc.,) > those > refer to Narayan only, otherwise nobody can > interpret the Vedas > without contradictions. > > Purusha Suktham is very clear that mentions > "HrEschatE , > LakshmIscha patnyaow" (Parama purusha has wives > Bhoodevi and Lakshmi > devi ). > > And there are no.of Upanishad vakyAs to prove > Sreeman Narayana's > paratvam without any doubt. > > "yasya tathA kapyAsam pudarIkamEvamakshiNI" , it > clearly tells that > Paramtma has the two(AkshinI is in dviteeya samasam) > beutiful lotus > like eyes (which proves Brahman is not Rudra who has > three eyes > ("tryaksha soola pAnih"), not Brahma who has four > heads and 8 eyes . > > Narayana is "apahatapApmA divyo deva Eko Narayana" > , who has no sins > (no karma), where as Rudra is "anapahatpApma" , > clearly tells Rudra > is also under Karma bondage like any other jeeva. > (so he is not even > avtara of Narayana). > > Thanks for your help. > > Adiyen. > Kannan > > > > --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, senthil b > <b_senthil2002@...> wrote: > > > > Dear bhagavathAs, > > > > adiyEn will try to prove that Sriman Narayanan > > is parantattvam by using paasurams from > > Thirumazhisai Alwar who is best to condemn > > all other sAshtrAs. > > > > adiyEn will now try to give some pasurams which > > conforms the supremeness, parantattvam of Sriman > > Narayanan. > > > > 1)In pasuram 53: (nAnmugam thiruvanthAthi) > > > > "...................- pollAtha > > thEvaraith thEvarallAraith thiruvillAth > > thEvaraith thErElmin thEvu." > > > > In the above pasuram, Alwar states that, he wont > > consider others as "dEvar" or "deivam", because > > they dont have any sampandham with Sri Devi > Naachiyar. > > > > The person who had sampandham with Sri Mahalaksmi > > is none other than Sriman Narayanan, is considered > > to be "deivam" or "dEvar". Others including > > "brahma-rudrAdhigal" aren't considered as > > "deivam or dEvar". > > > > Now, the saivites starts refusing Alwar by saying > > that, "You state that, only Narayanan is deivam, > > others aren't. Then the sAshtrAs says that, your > > lord is one of person who born along with Indran > as > > UpEndran during Vaama Avataram, and one among > > trimurtis "brahma-vishnu-rudran". Then the dosha's > > for the brahma-rudrAdhi's wont comes to your lord > > also? Because, vishnu is also one dEvar among the > > brahma-rudrAdhi's." > > > > To this question, now Thirumazhisai Alwar refutes > > clearly in his 54 Pasuram in nAnmugam > thiruvanthAthi. > > > > 2.paasuram 54 > > > > "thEvarAi niRkumath-thEvum ath-thEvaril > > moovarAi niRkum muthupunarppum ? yaavarAi > > niRkindrathellAm nedumAlen rOrAthAr > > karginRa thellAm kadai." > > > > The alwar says that "even though HE born as > brother > > to Indran and stood as one dEvar among trimurti's, > > it is true that HE is antharyAmi to > brhama-rudhrAdhi's > > which is explained by Vishnu Puraanam as > > > > "srushtisdhithyanthakaranIm > brahmavishnusivAthmikAm | > > sa samj~nam yaathi bhagavAnEga Eva janArthdhana: > || > > " > > [Vishnu Puranam 1.2-66 > ] > > > > muthpunarppum ? old avathAram of Sriman Narayanan; > > muthu ? old ; punarppu ? sankalpam ; > > It means that it's an avataram due to HIS > sankalpam. > > Not like others as due to their karmam, they took > > birth > > which is stated in Purusha Sooktam as follows: > > > > "thripAthUrdhva udhaith purusha: padhOsyEhAbhavAth > > > puna:" > > [Purusha Sooktam] > > > > Even in Gita Lord Krishna says that HE took birth > due > > to HIS sankalpa roopa gna~nam. > "sambhavAmyAthmamAyayA" > > > > Eventhough HE stood one among trimUrti's, HE is > none > > other than avatAram of Parama Purushan Sriman > > Narayanan. > > > > In next word - "yaavarAi nirkinrathellAm" -alwar > > proves > > that as a Parantattvam, HE stood to withhold all > the > > chethanAs' and sarva pathArthangal like dEvar, > > manushyar, thiryak, sthAvaram, etc., Apart from > HIM, > > emperuman is in all other things which is > different > > from HIS roopam, qualities, etc., through > "vyApakam" > > HE gives roopam, naamam to all those things which > > different from HIM. HE only born as Upendran, > Vishnu > > among trimurti's. > > > > 1.thEvarAi niRkumath-thEvum ? born as Upendran, > > > brother to Indran during Vaamana Avataram > > > > 2.moovarAi niRkum muthupunarppum ? old avataram of > > > Sriman Narayanan as Vishnu among trimurti's > > > > 3.yaavarAi niRkindrathellAm ? all other things > which > > > > got its saththai, roopam, naamam, et.c, > > > > 4.nedumAlE -- all the above are only Sriman > > Narayanan, sarvEshwaran, paramporul; > > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/ Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam http://www.vedics.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/join (Yahoo! 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