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 --- jasn sn <jayasartn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
> (Note:- The following mail is purely an academic and
> intellectual  exercise and not meant to offend
> anyone or anyone?s beliefs. )


Dear Sow. Jayashree Saranathan,

Your doughty rejoinders are all quite enjoyable. Do
not worry about "offending anyone" (at least on the
T'venkatam Group and least of all me). I'm an eternal
student in these matters and never claim certainty of
knowledge.

My views on this particular matter (as described in my
earlier postings) are, I confess, heavily influenced
by the Kanchi "paramAchAryA's" book "deivattin-kural".
I lean towards his views not so much because they are
orthodox or traditional as because they seem to me
reasonable, balanced and very persuasive.

You have many rejoinders but let me address only two
of what I think are the most important as below:

(1) (QUOTE) I would rather re-frame the question as
> ?should the women need to recite the vedas as men
> do, when they  can scale better spiritual heights
than men??  This question is expected to be read along
> with the frustration that a seeker of truth gets
when put under constraints solely for having been born
as a woman. (UNQUOTE)

I think you have yourself hinted the answer to your
question above! 

To the question ?should the women need to recite the
vedas as men do, when they  can scale better spiritual
heights than men??, my bland answer is, "No, there is
no need for women to recite the Vedas in order to
scale "better spiritual heights than men". AndAl is a
shining example.

With regard to the matter of feminine "frustration"
which you bring up, well, what can one say? I can only
offer an analogy by way of explanation even if it
might seem less than accurate to you. 

It is futile, I think, to get "frustrated" with
Nature. The nightingale and the humming-bird are both
equally beautiful specie of birds. The former sings
beautifully but cannot hum as well as the latter. On
that account, should the nightingale get "frustrated"?
It is in the nature ("svabhAva/svarUpa") of the
nightingale to sing and it's in the nature of the
humming-bird to hum. The nature of men is suited to
"hum" the Vedas just as the nature of women is suited
to "sing" "stUthi-s", "stOtra-s" or "prabhandham".

The "frustrated" nightingale can, or course, if it so
badly wants it (and out of a sense of misplaced
"frustration"), try its hand (should I say voice?) at
"humming"... but then what exactly is it trying to
prove and to whom? It might, in fact, only attract all
the wrong kinds of attention to itself! No one would
turn to it then for the beautiful music they have to
come to expect from its nature -- i.e. the
"svarUpa/svabhAva" of a nightingale. Instead, it would
at best only have curiosity-value. People would
perhaps to flock to see it only because they have
never in the world come across a
"humming-nightingale"! And, I might as well tell you,
the only thing worse than a "singing-humming-bird" is
a "humming-nightingale"! 

Let me give you yet another thought to chew upon:

Way back in the 1970s in India, there was a movement
to encourage women to take to cricket. Many talented
women in various parts of the country were found. Some
of them were indeed outstanding cricketers. Today,
womens cricket is international. Lots of tournaments
are played everywhere. Lots of money in it too! There
are more talented women-cricketers in the world today
than there were ever before in history. But just go
and ask any young cricket enthusiast anywhere in the
villages, towns and cities of India the question --
which form of cricket he enjoys more, women's or men's
cricket? The answer will always be "Men's cricket, of
course!". Ask your own kid-brother (if he's a
cricket-bug!) to name a single woman international
cricketer of today... I bet he will be unable to
recall a single one!

Why? Is it because of any gender-bias against
women-cricketers? No. Is it because of any prejudice
against women? Not really. Is it because there is some
deep-seated unwillingness to accept women as being
equally as talented as men in the game? No. 

The real reason is, it is all a matter of "svabhAva"
or "svarUpa"... and that is a rather indefinable but
inherent quality in the game which makes it more
attractive to watch it when played by men. Please do
not hastily conclude from my explanations that I'm
being male-chauvinistic. Please have an open mind.

Now taking up your other point below:

(2)  The crux of the issue therefore is ?experience?
and> the qualifying statement is that women or men in
> nayaki bhava are more prone to realising this
> experience. It is on record that Bhagavad Ramanuja
> had commended that Andal was equivalent to 10
azhwars.


I could'nt agree with you more on this one. I
personally consider AndAl the best "AzhwAr" of all
(although she is not one among them technically
speaking). Reading her "tiruppAvai" to this day gives
me joyous goose-pimples all over! Whenever I read
AndAl's stanzas or Peria-AzhwAr's stanzas where he
imagines himself to be Yasodha, I find myself secretly
wishing I could be a woman-lover or mother myself! (So
much for my "male-chauvinism"!)

There is no doubt in my mind at all. When it comes to
"bhakti" as an experience, you women-folk are endowed
by Nature to enjoy it more intensely and more
genuinely than we men.

Thanks and regards,
dAsan,
Sudarshan

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