[compost_tea] Re: Grain sterilization

From: dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 22:11:21 -0000

---


Hi Elaine, You opened up more topics than me I think. <grins> Dennis





Fine, however many people think their yeast leavened bread is
sterilized after baking and actually it is not, right? Another word
sanitized may be a term to discuss as well. Dennis

In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
> Hi Dennis -
>
> I think you need to re-think what you are considering as
sterilization. You might be requiring a big autoclave in your mind,
in order for something to be sterilized, when in fact there are many
other ways of achieving sterilization.
>
>


When we boil something, what does that do?
>

<><><><><<>It depends of course on time, temp and what the something
is. Dennis


 
> When we steam heat each day for three days, does that rate in your
mind as a kind of sterilization?
>
<><><><><><><><><><That depends on many factors too. Dennis


You sterilize your food all the time.

><><><>It's mostly overprocessed before I get it. The enzymes are
certainly destroyed and many proteins are denatured due to processing.
Perhaps sterilized, however, what if it's cooked rare or medium well
or lacto-"fermented". Dennis




It's called cooking.
>
> Don't tell me Coors doesn't sterilize their grains. I have worked
with Coors on their production methods.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Which sterilization methods? We spray pesticide on our
rice here(of course this is a new topic as well). Don't make beer
out of it though, just other shelf stable processed food products.
Dennis





 All culture media are sterilized, some is even sterilized in an
autoclave.
>
> A different topic -
>
> I am NOT against "plating(enumerating) in a sterile medium". You
are twisting what I said when you put that spin on my words.
>

>>>>>>>>>>Elaine, I didn't mean to, I just forgot some other
sterilization methods, however you may be covering sanitized instead
of sterilized when you refer to some of these plant processes. Dennis






> I have clearly said, over and over, that plate counts cannot be
used to determine diversity.

><><<><><><><><><>Fine. I've believed you over and over and will do
it again. Dennis
 


Please comprehend the difference between what I have said, and what
you think you heard me say. Get this straight.Plate count approaches
cannot be used to determine diversity. It is a flat-out, total mis-
use of methodology to represent plate counts methods as being able to
give reliable, useful answers about diversity.
>
> As I have pointed out over and over, plate count methods are useful
if you already know the precise growing conditions for a bacterial,
and sometimes even for a fungal, culture.
>
> Approximately 99.9% or more of the bacterial or fungal species we
know exist in soil, compost, or compost tea do not grow on any
medium, in any condition that we can produce in the lab.
>


>>>>>>>>>>This seems like the point to remember and I remember you
indicating something similar to this before today. Dennis




> When you do select to grow a particular species, or set of species
in the lab, the medium has to be sterilized in order to grow those
particular desired strains of organisms.
>
> All commercial mushroom facilities sterilize the media they use.
Just because you do not recognize the sterilization part of the
process does not mean that they do not use sterilization
procedures.
>
><><><><><><><><<>I only commented about mushrooms because Chris
asked about using them in ACT and Chris' reference mentioned
something about sterilization of grains. Do you know exactly how one
of the mushroom growers sterilize their growing medium.? I don't.
Dennis







 Commercial beer production centers treat their grains to prevent
contamination of their products. While you may have worked in a part
of the beer production process, the grain may have been treated
before it ever arrived at that facility. Think the entire process
through, be a bit less restrictive in your definition of
sterilization. All sterilzation does not require an autoclave.
>

<><><><><><><>Since I went into all this above info I will indicate
to all sanitizing is not sterilizing. Dennis


> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com


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Received on Sat Nov 08 2003 - 01:14:10 EST

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