--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "hi_yield1" <hi_yield1_at_y...>
wrote:
> Chris,
hi_yield1 said: But to pay $250.00 to $600.00
> for a test that gives you a number or numbers without any real
> correlation or true understanding between what a plants acutally
needs and what the acutal benfits are in my mind, just numbers.
These kind of test are for someone looking to bolster up a product
that they are trying to sell passing their cost onto the customer.
99 perecnt of the soil food web is not understood and cannot be
cultured in a lab and I quote.
> Again BUYER BEWARE of buying something you may already have in
> sufficient numbers, what ever that means. When in doubt common
sense practical approach works best.Take care hi_yield
REPLY: From my perspective, you are not being careful to hew to
facts. I think maybe that you don't really understand this stuff.
I have no problem with people not understanding, which is why I have
taken the time to respond with facts to what you have said. So if
you don't understand, ask questions. Better than attacking.
BUYER BEWARE: Warning -- hi_yield1 is talking out of his hat. Some
of his points are good, but he is not well informed regarding
compost tea and he is willing to try to sway people to accept his
prejudices, rather than examine the facts and make their own fact-
based decisions.
We are all adults on this list, except maybe (chronologically)
Oliver Hauver, but he asks questions and can clearly think for
himself, as well. Who is charging $600 "for a test"? I know of no
one. Second, there is MUCH in agriculture and the natural world
that is not fully understood. ONe wants to see that no one is
overstating the case as regards compost tea or any technology.
There have been times when the case has been overstated or glossed
over and I have spoken up. In my limited experience being exposed
to Elaine and her thinking, Elaine Ingham is usually the first
person to delineate the limits of what research has and has not
shown to date. It is she who points out how much can't be cultured
in a lab. Of course, SFI does not culture ANYTHING in a lab.
That's why SFI developed the approach it uses and does assays. That
means they count what is actually there, in the tea. Just count.
Don't grow anything. no plates of agar.
The notion that the tests don't correlate to what a plant actually
needs or the possible benefits is a little confusing, given that the
tests are for soil biology, not telling anyone what nutrition to put
on their plants. So, if somebody has a prejudice about compost tea
that is not fact based, they're handing it to you and you're
accepting it without using your brain to make sure they know what
they're talking about, you risk being duped like you're so scared
people on this list will be duped. Look for people who will give
you facts, not prejudices. That's what's necessary to keep growing
in high yields, not p*ssing contests among agricultural agents and
compost tea users.
Now, about people using tests "just to sell something". How many
products have you ever bought where it was really hard to find info
that was truly valuable before you bought it? I'm trying to buy a
refrigerator right now. At Sears, they all look alike inside with
about 3 shelf configuration variations. There's a little energy
star tag that tells you how much it will cost a year to run the
thing, the number of cu ft and that's it. Am I going to decide how
to spend $500 - $800 based on plastic shelves? No.
If people are doing tests just to sell their product, then we're
ahead of the game. I wish the refrigerator folks were doing that.
What is critical is that the test is rigged, is not crooked. Tests
for products are a good thing, especially honest, meaningful tests.
I've already expressed my belief that this industry would benefit
from independent testing, but any testing is better than no testing.
If any of you would-be compost tea users are approached by any
compost tea user who says your compost heap doesn't have in it what
their tea does, ask to see the tea test and look at the numbers, and
ask how they know what's in your compost pile. Compost is a
completely valid approach to soil health. Compost tea has an added
advantage of being able to be used for foliar applications, and it
is logistically easier for large farms. Examine carefully what you
are trying to do and the best way to do it. If compost tea fits,
great. If it doesn't, more power to you.
But, hiyield1, to cast aspersions on all uses of compost tea because
you have made a personal decision that if it's not right for you it
can't be right for anybody doesn't give the rest of the world credit
for being able to solve their own problems.
You've been given space to have your say, and people have been
patient with your anonymity (no one else on the list does this, by
the way) and your deviating from the protocol this group agrees to
follow, which is to stick to facts and not delve into anecdotal
evidence or hearsay, and when anecdotes or hearsay or non-facts are
presented, to state that's the case. You are not making it clear to
yourself how much of your argument is just that: argument. I'm
looking high and low for facts, but they are few and far between.
Mostly you have a bone to pick. How about getting with the program
or give it a rest?
Just the facts, man.
Chris Reid
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Received on Thu Nov 20 2003 - 00:50:45 EST