Re: [compost_tea] constructive look at our list?

From: w.reece speas <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:11:45 -0800 (PST)

You just got done telling evryone they had to give you there infor or be damed ,how do you expect to be treated , kind of makes me wish i hadnt wrote what i wrote earlier, sticking up for you , anyway ,give it a rest if your gonna brew and sell take what people are kind enough to offer and let it go ,take care reece

chriscreid <reidchris_at_earthlink.net> wrote:In recent weeks as I've been following up with individuals for best
practice document on ingredients input, I have received the
following asides in the posts: "Gave up on the list -- too much
traffic and not enough information," "too many advertisers," "I read
all I can get my hands on about AACT -- this list is a conundrum" .

And I've been thinking a lot about chocolate cake. In fact, this
morning when I woke up I was laughing out loud about chocolate
cake. I realized that if I were to try to learn about baking a
chocolate cake by using a list like compost tea -- well, can you
imagine a series of exchanges like this:

--What temperature are you guys using for baking?

--My grandmother swore by 350 F

--I tried 350 but it came out all high and cracked in the middle

--Mine came out 2 inches tall. Chocolate cake is bogus.

--350 -- but what is your altitude?

--I live in Holland but I use a convection oven

AND THAT IS JUST ABOUT trying to scratch together enough info to
BAKE the damn cake, folks! Then -- imagine what it would be like
if, even tho the chocolate cake baking list is supposed to have
advertisers post on Sunday, they post during the week and make
allusions to the fact that their cakes are baked in tree trunks by
little elves. Little 2.54 inch tall elves, and the cakes are baked
at exactly midnight (data, you know).

Options are:

Lower your expectations and be grateful for any info that floats by.

Cultivate off-list relationships where there's a better ratio of
give/get and spend time/energy on that series of private exchanges.

Pay a consultant for the info. Much faster and easier route to info
gathering. Hopefully accurate, too.

Make any postings by advertisers during the week HAVE to be
QUESTIONS to their product owners about what is right/wrong with
their product, and how can they serve them better. If you do that
during the week, you earn the right to post an ad on Sunday. HINT:
MAYBE, just MAYBE you won't NEED to post an ad if you do your
homework during the WEEK and LISTEN to what people try to tell you!!

BUT -- and here's the kicker -- the people who are criticized for
posting ads are worse off in some ways than the manufacturers who
never post ANYTHING. They get no criticism -- they can just read
the list and do whatever they think is useful from the information.
At times I wonder if they just laugh and think about how long it
takes us to tie our shoes.

So here are some other options for compost tea, chocolate cake
baking, or whatever.

Options are:

Lower your expectations and be grateful for any info that floats
by. This seems to be the main approach in this 450 member group.

Cultivate off-list relationships where there's a better ratio of
give/get and spend time/energy on that series of private exchanges.
To be fair, off-list at least you know who you are talking to and if
you want to get info when you give it, you can be selective about
how you share your "information currency".

Pay a consultant for the info. Much faster and easier route to info
gathering. Hopefully accurate, too.

Make some guidelines for posting --either for the group or for
anyone so inclined within the group -- so that people can see the
difference it makes to receive an information-intensive useful,
informative post and a post that doesn't contain enough information
to move someone else forward.

I don't think many of us are posting intentionally to deprive others
of info. Sometimes it's really hard to imagine what other people
do / don't know or will want to know. And some people clearly know
the difference between facts and slippery data and choose not to be
proactive in posting facts.

Make a group that has different rules of participation that will
help bring about the give/get you desire or reach your goal For
example, have a group where the list is moderated and posts are only
added to the list if they contain certain complete information.
Only admit to the list people who agree to post this way and make a
contribution at time of joining the list. Allow participation for
one month and if no other contribution is forthcoming, delete the
member until such time as another contribution is forthcoming. Why
do this? First, it might provide some measure of assurance to
people who are afraid to give because they might not get any value
back. Second, it might allow accurate or tested information to be
gathered faster and create more of an atmosphere of trust. It would
be important to create ways of participation for people at ANY level
of tea making experience, not just those who were well grounded in
it. ON such a list where all agree to kick in and contribute, the
list could from time to time choose a particular question or topic
to explore and set about hammering out the info on that topic before
moving on to another.

Can this system be "gamed"? Sure, by someone who disagrees with the
premise and copies what is offered on the list and passes it around
to non-members.

For what it's worth.
  




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Received on Sun Dec 21 2003 - 10:42:19 EST

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