RE: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions

From: Mike Bosko <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:53:20 -0800

WHOA
 
I just searched back through Dr E's messages, long past and current, and I
had found no indication of ad- or spy-ware attached to -any- of Dr E's
messages.
 
However, something you might be confusing for a spyware attachment is that
each message sent to Yahoo Groups can get appended with the text for one of
Yahoo's sponsors ad's. This is by design. This is how we get this service
for free. Nothing different than your standard channel TV programs at home
- advertising pays for it. So, it is not Adware or spyware adding this. I
know your intentions are good, but this could be what you are thinking of a=
s
adware?
 
I am not concerned about receiving, and reading, messages from Dr E. I
haven't seen any signs of adware attachments.
 
((but then... you shouldn't be executing any attachments that you didn't
request anyway -- OK? (i love that) ))
 
Mike
 
JMT SYSTEMS CONSULTING
Systems Development & Network Administration
509 968-9015 / Fax: 509 968-9016
 
 
PS:
Since the worm's out on the table anyway ...
Here are the two good, and free, ad- and spy-ware removal programs that I
use - these can be trusted (DON'T trust all messages or programs that state=
s
its an Ad killer or blocker - most are fronts for adding even more of this
crud to your systems). These are what the techs use:
 
Spybot Search & Destroy (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10194058.html)
Ad-Aware (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10214379.html?tag=lst-0-1)
 
So you know too, people's systems get infected by not having auto-protect
virus protection, not keeping their virus defs up to date, not having a
firewall and not keeping up with your MS security updates (if you have a
Microsoft OS).
 
Again, sorry for the off-topic post - but I think it was important to jump
in here.
 
Mike
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:21 AM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions



Elaine:
 
It was good to talk with you and I am pursuing the results of our
conversation. Two things:
 
First:
 
You email is sending out attached adware. While this is not lethal like a
virus, it does infect anyone's system who receives your email and it
attaches a registry command that sends your keystrokes to the sourse of the
adware. I suggest you look up Pest Patrol or some other adware blocker,
install it on your computer and clear out all the adware you have. If you
have sold ride-along rites to your email -- a perfectly legal thing to do,
please inform the list or any recipient that you have done so.we will know
that to read them risks having an unwanted pest installed on our system. =
 
 
I suspect it is inadvertent and you do not know it is happening.
 
Second:
 
Fungi that work in soil are not the same fungi that inhabit grains as far a=
s
I can tell. What good does it do to grow fungi associated with oat or
barley or any other type of grain in your tea (You suggested adding oat
flour to the compost. Is this only as a food source?)? What happens to
these fungi when applied in your soil or on your plant?
 
Ted Peterson
Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth

----- Original Message -----
From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:52 AM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Treatment for pests in Carpathian Walnuts

I've gotten a couple e-mails like this one, so I think I'll send this to th=
e
group, in hopes that folks will give this to others that need help on
working out the program.

> Elaine, thank you for your earlier response to several questions. I lost
some of the information that I really need. I have insect problems in my
walnut plantings: Butternut curculio, husk maggots, and maybe apple
maggots. I believe you mentioned the use of some bacteria, fungi, nemitode=
,
etc. as a soil treatment to interrupt the life cycle. Can you help me wit=
h
that information again, please. Any suggestions on organic sprays to help
protect the crop from adult insects would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks! Keep up the good work!
>

> Hi Norman -
>
Last fall, you needed to get the beneficial organisms that consume the
over-wintering forms of the pests you asked about back into your litter
material and into your soil. You want to leave the litter on the soil in
the fall, not rake it up, or burn it or something like that. Litter, or
leaf debris from your trees, is supposed to remain on the soil. The dead
leaves are food to feed the beneficial fungi and bacteria, which you need t=
o
form structure in the soil (so roots can grow down to the depth they are
meant to grow down to, not be arrested by anaerobic conditions that develop
as a result of compaction at 12 to 18 inches).

You also then need to inoculate the right aerobic biology to process
nutrients and return them to your plants at the rate, time and form the
plant requires.

You need the beneficial organisms to combat disease-causing organisms in th=
e
soil, and on that leaf litter. If the good guys are not present, then the
bad guys rule. And you have the pests and pathogens you asked about
reigning supreme.

So, you have to get the good guys back. The good guys DO NOT return fast
enough on their own. You CANNOT assay for the good guys by using plate
counts or microbial biomass as assessed by chloroform fumigation. Do not b=
e
mis-lead by "soils" people that try to use these methods of assessment to
negate a true understanding of what is going on in soil, and with soil life=
.


The papers presented at the Soils meetings this last fall were laughable.
They concluded that soil life doesn't change when you plow, or when you add
an incoulum of organisms. But they used methods that couldn't possibly tel=
l
them about these things. I just shake my head when someone uses chlorofor=
m
fumigation to assess microbial biomass in soil. They are measuring soil
organic matter, and really, not much else. I think plate methods are
idiotic for trying to assess species diversity of bacteria or fungi, imagin=
e
what I think about something that tries to make statements about biology
based on the CO2 being produced from the microbial biomass killed by the
chloroform. Especially since the fungal hyphae are usually not even touche=
d
by the organism that survive fumigation - and thus the fungal biomass is
almost completely ignored by this particular method.

Anyway, back to the point.

So you didn't get compost or compost tea, or an inoculum of bacterial
beneficials on the litter last fall? Or maybe you have tried tea, but it
"didn't work". Well, you didn't get enough on, the tea wasn't good quality
- didn't have the proper biology to displace the disease organisms or begin
the process of decomposition - or you have toxic chemicals in the soil that
killed the added biology.

In any case, the presence of the diseases tell you that you DON'T have the
proper biology present to protect the trees.

So, start this spring ASAP. As soon as the ground temperature is about 45
F, apply about 20 gal/ac of good tea to the litter and the soil. If it's
really good tea, you can put 15 gal/ac. There is some benefit in testing
the tea then, to know what amount you need to put on....

And it would be good to know where you are starting from, in the soil, to
know if addition of the tea or compost improved anything, and whether you
have a toxic chemical present in your soil that has to get dealt with befor=
e
you can get the biology to do their improvements for the soil and your
plants.

So, apply 15 to 20 gal/ac to the soil. Then, check the VAM colonization of
the roots of your plants. If you need to improve the mycorrhizal
colonization of hte roots, do some under-cutting of weeds, but also inject
tea with VAM spores in it. You get the weeds and help the trees at the
same time.

Plant a fungal-dominated over-story crop plant - like strawberry, or thyme,
or lavender (a SHORT cultivar, from seed, not bunches, please), or marjoram=
,
or some other native perennial herb (get Kirk to help you choose a good
native).

About the time bud swell occurs, you want to do a foliar tea spray, at abou=
t
5 gallons per ac for each 6 foot height of tree. If the trees are really
bushy and wide, then adjust appropriately.

When budbreak occurs, you want to get out with a second application of tea.
If there is no disease early in the psring, you can wait another month to
spray. When disease "season" comes upon you (listen to the Extension folks=
,
they'll tell you when the diseases start blooming, or the pests start to
take off), then you need to spray every week if diseases or pests are bad.
Every two weeks through a disease season, if the disease is present but not
too bad. If you have perfect conditions for disease, then you may need to
double up sprays, and do twice a week for a week or so.

We have a paper coming out on the work we did with JUST foliar sprays in
vineyards. We didn't do anything about the disease inoculum in the soil in
that study, and so we didn't get full protection. The study proved that yo=
u
need to do something about the disease in the orchard soil. Don't listen
to the people who want to claim that the study shows that compost tea
doesn't work. Sigh. Foliar applications of tea can only do so much.
That's what the study was about. Could just foliar sprays deal with the
problems? The answer is no, you have to do the soil drenches as well.

Anyway, in succeeding years, if you stop chemical spraying (and that
includes herbicides - no more Round-Up!), then you maintain and improve soi=
l
life. Weeds exit the system, because you get rid of the excess nitrate tha=
t
helps so many of the weed species germinate and out-compete the crop you ar=
e
trying to grow.

But remember, nature abhors bare soil, and Mother Nature will send weeds
into a place that you are disturbing. Tillage and use of toxic chemicals
kills the organisms that help trees grow, so the less tillage and toxic
chemcials you use, the less weed you have. But you have to avoid bare
soil. Plant that perennial cover-crop under the trees. Grass in the
driving row.

For more infomration on the details of these intereactions, more how and wh=
y
and mechanism for why these things work, please come take a SFI course.

We have a course in San Mateo the end of January. Please see our web site
(www.soilfoodweb.com) for details. Or come to ACRES next year. Arden
Anderson and I will be doing a 3 day course on intergrating soil chemistry
and soil biology into one smooth program that will solve both soil chemistr=
y
and soil biology problems without harming the biology.

Or at least, we'll get you thinking about how to do it. We might not have
the perfect system for you, in Michigan, figured out yet. But it will be
the cutting edge course on this new approach in agriculture.

The best part is, this Biological Agriculture works. It is less expensive,
getting you back to using your own resources to make your orchard
productive. Doesn't mean you throw out the pesticides (copper sulfate is a
pesticide, but it is allowed on organic farms). Sometimes plagues happen,
and then you need the toxics. But if you use a toxic chemcial you have to
then use compost or compost tea to put back the beneficial biology you just
killed. And you have to then give them time to recover and get back to
work.

Sort of like recovering from Christmas, and now trying to get back to work.
I don't wanna!

Feel free to ask more questions if this isn't clear. Or find an SFI adviso=
r
near you to help you with the details. The advisors are listed on the SFI
website - www.soilfoodweb.com

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com



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Received on Wed Dec 31 2003 - 16:18:50 EST

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