OT RE: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions

From: jim allAn <jallan6977_at_earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:24:32 -0500

   I respect your opinion mike, but I speak from experience. M$
updates can sometimes be a source of trouble themselves. I did an
update about two months ago and have regretted it ever since. I got
it straight from a manufacturer that M$ had quite a few improper
display drivers in that update. It has kept me limited to low
resolution ever since. I have already taken steps to get M$ off my
system by going to linux. M$ is just to big a target for hackers to
toss in their vruses. Why would a security update change your
display driver. Just my guess, but it would be a great way to
encourage you to by a new display card. If I do you can bet it won't
be made by M$.

On 31 Dec 2003 at 12:53, Mike Bosko wrote:

> WHOA
>
> I just searched back through Dr E's messages, long past and current, and I
> had found no indication of ad- or spy-ware attached to -any- of Dr E's
> messages.
>
> However, something you might be confusing for a spyware attachment is that
> each message sent to Yahoo Groups can get appended with the text for one of
> Yahoo's sponsors ad's. This is by design. This is how we get this service
> for free. Nothing different than your standard channel TV programs at home
> - advertising pays for it. So, it is not Adware or spyware adding this. I
> know your intentions are good, but this could be what you are thinking of as
> adware?
>
> I am not concerned about receiving, and reading, messages from Dr E. I
> haven't seen any signs of adware attachments.
>
> ((but then... you shouldn't be executing any attachments that you didn't
> request anyway -- OK? (i love that) ))
>
> Mike
>
> JMT SYSTEMS CONSULTING
> Systems Development & Network Administration
> 509 968-9015 / Fax: 509 968-9016
>
>
> PS:
> Since the worm's out on the table anyway ...
> Here are the two good, and free, ad- and spy-ware removal programs that I
> use - these can be trusted (DON'T trust all messages or programs that states
> its an Ad killer or blocker - most are fronts for adding even more of this
> crud to your systems). These are what the techs use:
>
> Spybot Search & Destroy (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10194058.html)
> Ad-Aware (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10214379.html?tag=lst-0-1)
>
> So you know too, people's systems get infected by not having auto-protect
> virus protection, not keeping their virus defs up to date, not having a
> firewall and not keeping up with your MS security updates (if you have a
> Microsoft OS).
>
> Again, sorry for the off-topic post - but I think it was important to jump
> in here.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:21 AM
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions
>
>
>
> Elaine:
>
> It was good to talk with you and I am pursuing the results of our
> conversation. Two things:
>
> First:
>
> You email is sending out attached adware. While this is not lethal like a
> virus, it does infect anyone's system who receives your email and it
> attaches a registry command that sends your keystrokes to the sourse of the
> adware. I suggest you look up Pest Patrol or some other adware blocker,
> install it on your computer and clear out all the adware you have. If you
> have sold ride-along rites to your email -- a perfectly legal thing to do,
> please inform the list or any recipient that you have done so.we will know
> that to read them risks having an unwanted pest installed on our system.
>
> I suspect it is inadvertent and you do not know it is happening.
>
> Second:
>
> Fungi that work in soil are not the same fungi that inhabit grains as far as
> I can tell. What good does it do to grow fungi associated with oat or
> barley or any other type of grain in your tea (You suggested adding oat
> flour to the compost. Is this only as a food source?)? What happens to
> these fungi when applied in your soil or on your plant?
>
> Ted Peterson
> Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:52 AM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Treatment for pests in Carpathian Walnuts
>
> I've gotten a couple e-mails like this one, so I think I'll send this to the
> group, in hopes that folks will give this to others that need help on
> working out the program.
>
> > Elaine, thank you for your earlier response to several questions. I lost
> some of the information that I really need. I have insect problems in my
> walnut plantings: Butternut curculio, husk maggots, and maybe apple
> maggots. I believe you mentioned the use of some bacteria, fungi, nemitode,
> etc. as a soil treatment to interrupt the life cycle. Can you help me with
> that information again, please. Any suggestions on organic sprays to help
> protect the crop from adult insects would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks! Keep up the good work!
> >
>
> > Hi Norman -
> >
> Last fall, you needed to get the beneficial organisms that consume the
> over-wintering forms of the pests you asked about back into your litter
> material and into your soil. You want to leave the litter on the soil in
> the fall, not rake it up, or burn it or something like that. Litter, or
> leaf debris from your trees, is supposed to remain on the soil. The dead
> leaves are food to feed the beneficial fungi and bacteria, which you need to
> form structure in the soil (so roots can grow down to the depth they are
> meant to grow down to, not be arrested by anaerobic conditions that develop
> as a result of compaction at 12 to 18 inches).
>
> You also then need to inoculate the right aerobic biology to process
> nutrients and return them to your plants at the rate, time and form the
> plant requires.
>
> You need the beneficial organisms to combat disease-causing organisms in the
> soil, and on that leaf litter. If the good guys are not present, then the
> bad guys rule. And you have the pests and pathogens you asked about
> reigning supreme.
>
> So, you have to get the good guys back. The good guys DO NOT return fast
> enough on their own. You CANNOT assay for the good guys by using plate
> counts or microbial biomass as assessed by chloroform fumigation. Do not be
> mis-lead by "soils" people that try to use these methods of assessment to
> negate a true understanding of what is going on in soil, and with soil life.
>
>
> The papers presented at the Soils meetings this last fall were laughable.
> They concluded that soil life doesn't change when you plow, or when you add
> an incoulum of organisms. But they used methods that couldn't possibly tell
> them about these things. I just shake my head when someone uses chloroform
> fumigation to assess microbial biomass in soil. They are measuring soil
> organic matter, and really, not much else. I think plate methods are
> idiotic for trying to assess species diversity of bacteria or fungi, imagine
> what I think about something that tries to make statements about biology
> based on the CO2 being produced from the microbial biomass killed by the
> chloroform. Especially since the fungal hyphae are usually not even touched
> by the organism that survive fumigation - and thus the fungal biomass is
> almost completely ignored by this particular method.
>
> Anyway, back to the point.
>
> So you didn't get compost or compost tea, or an inoculum of bacterial
> beneficials on the litter last fall? Or maybe you have tried tea, but it
> "didn't work". Well, you didn't get enough on, the tea wasn't good quality
> - didn't have the proper biology to displace the disease organisms or begin
> the process of decomposition - or you have toxic chemicals in the soil that
> killed the added biology.
>
> In any case, the presence of the diseases tell you that you DON'T have the
> proper biology present to protect the trees.
>
> So, start this spring ASAP. As soon as the ground temperature is about 45
> F, apply about 20 gal/ac of good tea to the litter and the soil. If it's
> really good tea, you can put 15 gal/ac. There is some benefit in testing
> the tea then, to know what amount you need to put on....
>
> And it would be good to know where you are starting from, in the soil, to
> know if addition of the tea or compost improved anything, and whether you
> have a toxic chemical present in your soil that has to get dealt with before
> you can get the biology to do their improvements for the soil and your
> plants.
>
> So, apply 15 to 20 gal/ac to the soil. Then, check the VAM colonization of
> the roots of your plants. If you need to improve the mycorrhizal
> colonization of hte roots, do some under-cutting of weeds, but also inject
> tea with VAM spores in it. You get the weeds and help the trees at the
> same time.
>
> Plant a fungal-dominated over-story crop plant - like strawberry, or thyme,
> or lavender (a SHORT cultivar, from seed, not bunches, please), or marjoram,
> or some other native perennial herb (get Kirk to help you choose a good
> native).
>
> About the time bud swell occurs, you want to do a foliar tea spray, at about
> 5 gallons per ac for each 6 foot height of tree. If the trees are really
> bushy and wide, then adjust appropriately.
>
> When budbreak occurs, you want to get out with a second application of tea.
> If there is no disease early in the psring, you can wait another month to
> spray. When disease "season" comes upon you (listen to the Extension folks,
> they'll tell you when the diseases start blooming, or the pests start to
> take off), then you need to spray every week if diseases or pests are bad.
> Every two weeks through a disease season, if the disease is present but not
> too bad. If you have perfect conditions for disease, then you may need to
> double up sprays, and do twice a week for a week or so.
>
> We have a paper coming out on the work we did with JUST foliar sprays in
> vineyards. We didn't do anything about the disease inoculum in the soil in
> that study, and so we didn't get full protection. The study proved that you
> need to do something about the disease in the orchard soil. Don't listen
> to the people who want to claim that the study shows that compost tea
> doesn't work. Sigh. Foliar applications of tea can only do so much.
> That's what the study was about. Could just foliar sprays deal with the
> problems? The answer is no, you have to do the soil drenches as well.
>
> Anyway, in succeeding years, if you stop chemical spraying (and that
> includes herbicides - no more Round-Up!), then you maintain and improve soil
> life. Weeds exit the system, because you get rid of the excess nitrate that
> helps so many of the weed species germinate and out-compete the crop you are
> trying to grow.
>
> But remember, nature abhors bare soil, and Mother Nature will send weeds
> into a place that you are disturbing. Tillage and use of toxic chemicals
> kills the organisms that help trees grow, so the less tillage and toxic
> chemcials you use, the less weed you have. But you have to avoid bare
> soil. Plant that perennial cover-crop under the trees. Grass in the
> driving row.
>
> For more infomration on the details of these intereactions, more how and why
> and mechanism for why these things work, please come take a SFI course.
>
> We have a course in San Mateo the end of January. Please see our web site
> (www.soilfoodweb.com) for details. Or come to ACRES next year. Arden
> Anderson and I will be doing a 3 day course on intergrating soil chemistry
> and soil biology into one smooth program that will solve both soil chemistry
> and soil biology problems without harming the biology.
>
> Or at least, we'll get you thinking about how to do it. We might not have
> the perfect system for you, in Michigan, figured out yet. But it will be
> the cutting edge course on this new approach in agriculture.
>
> The best part is, this Biological Agriculture works. It is less expensive,
> getting you back to using your own resources to make your orchard
> productive. Doesn't mean you throw out the pesticides (copper sulfate is a
> pesticide, but it is allowed on organic farms). Sometimes plagues happen,
> and then you need the toxics. But if you use a toxic chemcial you have to
> then use compost or compost tea to put back the beneficial biology you just
> killed. And you have to then give them time to recover and get back to
> work.
>
> Sort of like recovering from Christmas, and now trying to get back to work.
> I don't wanna!
>
> Feel free to ask more questions if this isn't clear. Or find an SFI advisor
> near you to help you with the details. The advisors are listed on the SFI
> website - www.soilfoodweb.com
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com
>
>
>
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Received on Thu Jan 01 2004 - 22:50:59 EST

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