RE: OT RE: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions

From: Mike Bosko <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:59:47 -0800

Crud, sorry folks. I meant to send that last response directly to Jim
rather than to the whole list.... Oh well, now you know all you ever wanted
to know about MS and Linux (trust me, its all you wanted to know. Grin).

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: jim allAn [mailto:jallan6977_at_earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 5:25 PM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: OT RE: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions


   I respect your opinion mike, but I speak from experience. M$
updates can sometimes be a source of trouble themselves. I did an
update about two months ago and have regretted it ever since. I got
it straight from a manufacturer that M$ had quite a few improper
display drivers in that update. It has kept me limited to low
resolution ever since. I have already taken steps to get M$ off my
system by going to linux. M$ is just to big a target for hackers to
toss in their vruses. Why would a security update change your
display driver. Just my guess, but it would be a great way to
encourage you to by a new display card. If I do you can bet it won't
be made by M$.

On 31 Dec 2003 at 12:53, Mike Bosko wrote:

> WHOA
>
> I just searched back through Dr E's messages, long past and current,
> and I had found no indication of ad- or spy-ware attached to -any- of
> Dr E's messages.
>
> However, something you might be confusing for a spyware attachment is
> that each message sent to Yahoo Groups can get appended with the text
> for one of Yahoo's sponsors ad's. This is by design. This is how we
> get this service for free. Nothing different than your standard
> channel TV programs at home
> - advertising pays for it. So, it is not Adware or spyware adding this.
I
> know your intentions are good, but this could be what you are thinking of
as
> adware?
>
> I am not concerned about receiving, and reading, messages from Dr E.
> I haven't seen any signs of adware attachments.
>
> ((but then... you shouldn't be executing any attachments that you
> didn't request anyway -- OK? (i love that) ))
>
> Mike
>
> JMT SYSTEMS CONSULTING
> Systems Development & Network Administration
> 509 968-9015 / Fax: 509 968-9016
>
>
> PS:
> Since the worm's out on the table anyway ...
> Here are the two good, and free, ad- and spy-ware removal programs that I
> use - these can be trusted (DON'T trust all messages or programs that
states
> its an Ad killer or blocker - most are fronts for adding even more of this
> crud to your systems). These are what the techs use:
>
> Spybot Search & Destroy
> (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10194058.html)
> Ad-Aware (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10214379.html?tag=lst-0-1)
>
> So you know too, people's systems get infected by not having
> auto-protect virus protection, not keeping their virus defs up to
> date, not having a firewall and not keeping up with your MS security
> updates (if you have a Microsoft OS).
>
> Again, sorry for the off-topic post - but I think it was important to
> jump in here.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:21 AM
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [compost_tea] adware pest warning and Fungi questions
>
>
>
> Elaine:
>
> It was good to talk with you and I am pursuing the results of our
> conversation. Two things:
>
> First:
>
> You email is sending out attached adware. While this is not lethal
> like a virus, it does infect anyone's system who receives your email
> and it attaches a registry command that sends your keystrokes to the
> sourse of the adware. I suggest you look up Pest Patrol or some other
> adware blocker, install it on your computer and clear out all the
> adware you have. If you have sold ride-along rites to your email -- a
> perfectly legal thing to do, please inform the list or any recipient
> that you have done so.we will know that to read them risks having an
unwanted pest installed on our system.
>
> I suspect it is inadvertent and you do not know it is happening.
>
> Second:
>
> Fungi that work in soil are not the same fungi that inhabit grains as
> far as I can tell. What good does it do to grow fungi associated with
> oat or barley or any other type of grain in your tea (You suggested
> adding oat flour to the compost. Is this only as a food source?)?
> What happens to these fungi when applied in your soil or on your
> plant?
>
> Ted Peterson
> Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:52 AM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Treatment for pests in Carpathian Walnuts
>
> I've gotten a couple e-mails like this one, so I think I'll send this
> to the group, in hopes that folks will give this to others that need
> help on working out the program.
>
> > Elaine, thank you for your earlier response to several questions. I
> > lost
> some of the information that I really need. I have insect problems in
> my walnut plantings: Butternut curculio, husk maggots, and maybe
> apple maggots. I believe you mentioned the use of some bacteria, fungi,
nemitode,
> etc. as a soil treatment to interrupt the life cycle. Can you help me
with
> that information again, please. Any suggestions on organic sprays to
> help protect the crop from adult insects would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks! Keep up the good work!
> >
>
> > Hi Norman -
> >
> Last fall, you needed to get the beneficial organisms that consume the
> over-wintering forms of the pests you asked about back into your
> litter material and into your soil. You want to leave the litter on the
soil in
> the fall, not rake it up, or burn it or something like that. Litter, or
> leaf debris from your trees, is supposed to remain on the soil. The
> dead leaves are food to feed the beneficial fungi and bacteria, which
> you need to form structure in the soil (so roots can grow down to the
> depth they are meant to grow down to, not be arrested by anaerobic
conditions that develop
> as a result of compaction at 12 to 18 inches).
>
> You also then need to inoculate the right aerobic biology to process
> nutrients and return them to your plants at the rate, time and form
> the plant requires.
>
> You need the beneficial organisms to combat disease-causing organisms
> in the soil, and on that leaf litter. If the good guys are not
> present, then the bad guys rule. And you have the pests and pathogens
> you asked about reigning supreme.
>
> So, you have to get the good guys back. The good guys DO NOT return
> fast enough on their own. You CANNOT assay for the good guys by using
> plate counts or microbial biomass as assessed by chloroform
> fumigation. Do not be mis-lead by "soils" people that try to use
> these methods of assessment to negate a true understanding of what is
> going on in soil, and with soil life.
>
>
> The papers presented at the Soils meetings this last fall were
> laughable. They concluded that soil life doesn't change when you plow,
> or when you add an incoulum of organisms. But they used methods that
couldn't possibly tell
> them about these things. I just shake my head when someone uses
chloroform
> fumigation to assess microbial biomass in soil. They are measuring
> soil organic matter, and really, not much else. I think plate methods
> are idiotic for trying to assess species diversity of bacteria or
> fungi, imagine what I think about something that tries to make
> statements about biology based on the CO2 being produced from the
> microbial biomass killed by the chloroform. Especially since the
> fungal hyphae are usually not even touched by the organism that
> survive fumigation - and thus the fungal biomass is almost completely
ignored by this particular method.
>
> Anyway, back to the point.
>
> So you didn't get compost or compost tea, or an inoculum of bacterial
> beneficials on the litter last fall? Or maybe you have tried tea, but
> it "didn't work". Well, you didn't get enough on, the tea wasn't good
> quality
> - didn't have the proper biology to displace the disease organisms or
begin
> the process of decomposition - or you have toxic chemicals in the soil
that
> killed the added biology.
>
> In any case, the presence of the diseases tell you that you DON'T have
> the proper biology present to protect the trees.
>
> So, start this spring ASAP. As soon as the ground temperature is
> about 45 F, apply about 20 gal/ac of good tea to the litter and the
> soil. If it's really good tea, you can put 15 gal/ac. There is some
> benefit in testing the tea then, to know what amount you need to put
> on....
>
> And it would be good to know where you are starting from, in the soil,
> to know if addition of the tea or compost improved anything, and
> whether you have a toxic chemical present in your soil that has to get
> dealt with before you can get the biology to do their improvements for the
soil and your
> plants.
>
> So, apply 15 to 20 gal/ac to the soil. Then, check the VAM
> colonization of the roots of your plants. If you need to improve the
> mycorrhizal colonization of hte roots, do some under-cutting of weeds, but
also inject
> tea with VAM spores in it. You get the weeds and help the trees at the
> same time.
>
> Plant a fungal-dominated over-story crop plant - like strawberry, or
> thyme, or lavender (a SHORT cultivar, from seed, not bunches, please),
> or marjoram, or some other native perennial herb (get Kirk to help you
> choose a good native).
>
> About the time bud swell occurs, you want to do a foliar tea spray, at
> about 5 gallons per ac for each 6 foot height of tree. If the trees
> are really bushy and wide, then adjust appropriately.
>
> When budbreak occurs, you want to get out with a second application of
> tea. If there is no disease early in the psring, you can wait another
> month to spray. When disease "season" comes upon you (listen to the
> Extension folks, they'll tell you when the diseases start blooming, or
> the pests start to take off), then you need to spray every week if
> diseases or pests are bad. Every two weeks through a disease season,
> if the disease is present but not too bad. If you have perfect
> conditions for disease, then you may need to double up sprays, and do
twice a week for a week or so.
>
> We have a paper coming out on the work we did with JUST foliar sprays
> in vineyards. We didn't do anything about the disease inoculum in the
> soil in that study, and so we didn't get full protection. The study
proved that you
> need to do something about the disease in the orchard soil. Don't listen
> to the people who want to claim that the study shows that compost tea
> doesn't work. Sigh. Foliar applications of tea can only do so much.
> That's what the study was about. Could just foliar sprays deal with the
> problems? The answer is no, you have to do the soil drenches as well.
>
> Anyway, in succeeding years, if you stop chemical spraying (and that
> includes herbicides - no more Round-Up!), then you maintain and
> improve soil life. Weeds exit the system, because you get rid of the
> excess nitrate that helps so many of the weed species germinate and
out-compete the crop you are
> trying to grow.
>
> But remember, nature abhors bare soil, and Mother Nature will send
> weeds into a place that you are disturbing. Tillage and use of toxic
> chemicals kills the organisms that help trees grow, so the less tillage
and toxic
> chemcials you use, the less weed you have. But you have to avoid bare
> soil. Plant that perennial cover-crop under the trees. Grass in the
> driving row.
>
> For more infomration on the details of these intereactions, more how
> and why and mechanism for why these things work, please come take a
> SFI course.
>
> We have a course in San Mateo the end of January. Please see our web
> site
> (www.soilfoodweb.com) for details. Or come to ACRES next year. Arden
> Anderson and I will be doing a 3 day course on intergrating soil chemistry
> and soil biology into one smooth program that will solve both soil
chemistry
> and soil biology problems without harming the biology.
>
> Or at least, we'll get you thinking about how to do it. We might not
> have the perfect system for you, in Michigan, figured out yet. But it
> will be the cutting edge course on this new approach in agriculture.
>
> The best part is, this Biological Agriculture works. It is less
> expensive, getting you back to using your own resources to make your
> orchard productive. Doesn't mean you throw out the pesticides (copper
sulfate is a
> pesticide, but it is allowed on organic farms). Sometimes plagues
happen,
> and then you need the toxics. But if you use a toxic chemcial you
> have to then use compost or compost tea to put back the beneficial
> biology you just killed. And you have to then give them time to recover
and get back to
> work.
>
> Sort of like recovering from Christmas, and now trying to get back to
> work. I don't wanna!
>
> Feel free to ask more questions if this isn't clear. Or find an SFI
> advisor near you to help you with the details. The advisors are
> listed on the SFI website - www.soilfoodweb.com
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com
>
>
>
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Received on Thu Jan 01 2004 - 22:51:01 EST

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