Re: [compost_tea] Re: Plum Curculio Response to Elaine

From: w.reece speas <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:59:02 -0800 (PST)

please stay in here ,i like too see responses ,very interesting,thanks reece

dakesian1 <dakesian_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote:Thanks Elaine. My first name is Rick. I didn't send an e-mail
directly to you saying organic approaches fail to work on the PC
problem. I attached an old article on what a professional said
about beauveria (spelling?) and its effects on PC. Over the years
I've read quite a few statements by professionals indicating organic
controls aren't very effective on PC. That's all.

It makes sense that beneficials would attack and keep PC in check.
My only worry is that PC is migrating into my yard from other areas
because that's what they do. Sorry for giving the impression that I
think organics don't have the potential to reduce PC populations.

You have to remember Elaine that I'm just a backyard gardener and
have no problem learning from the professionals. I realize
gardening is a constant learning experience. Let me know whenever
you think one of my posts is off base.

I look forward to you sending me an e-mail responding to my specific
statements. Thanks again Elaine!

Btw, I've sent in those armies!! LOL

Rick

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
> Sorry, my computer did a strange thing and sent the e-mail before
I was done.
>
> Can I ask your name, dakesian? I feel odd addressing all this
to "you", without some name to put on here. You are in Michigan?
Different place than I had you mentally located. My telepathic
abilities leave something to be desired. Grin!
>
> Did I, or did I not, see an e-mail from you saying that the
organic approaches did not work on PC?
>
> I hear a bit of a turn-around on that attitude in your last e-
mail. In fact, the organic approaches are working, just maybe not
100% perfectly.
>
> Steve Diver said that PC can be reduced by 90%, but still have 50%
damage.
>
> I just don't buy that statement at face value. When any pest is
in plague mode, or an outbreak condition, there is no approach that
will control it at that point. This condition is brought on by
making the habitat perfect for PC, while making the habitat horrible
for the things that keep the pest in check.
>
> How about an example using a different situation? When
grasshoppers are in swarm phase, reducing their populations by 50%
does not make any difference to the destruction of the wheat crop.
When in outbreak mode, reducing 2 billion pests by 90% still leaves
you with 200 million pests, and no weheat crop.
>
> When in that mode, the take-home message is not to say that
biological approaches don't work. The take-home message is that the
pest situation was ignored until it got out of hand. Next time,
don't ignore it.
>
> We've been through this with gypsy moth. We've been through this
with pine bark beetle. We've been through this with codling moth.
Learn the lesson.
>
> Learning does not occur when every approach offered is rejected as
not being capable of dealing with the situation. When in outbreak
mode, there is nothing that will work except the weather.
Fumigating everything to nuke the pest just leaves the few pests
that do survive without any competition what-so-ever. Hello pest
outbreak again next summer.
>
> But now that winter is here, the adult pests have been frozen to
death. Great, the pest is gone - NOT! Eggs and dormant stages are
still present. You have until those eggs hatch, until the larvae
moult, to knock out next summer's problem.
>
> So, plum curculio, where does it over-winter? Send in the armies
of consumers to eat the eggs through the winter. Send in the armies
that will take the food resource away from the larval stages of the
insect. Send in consumers. Send in some parasites of the eggs and
the larval stages.
>
> It sounds like dakesian has this going in his soil.
>
> BUT -
>
> PC is in outbreak mode, which means they are in such high numbers
in your neighbor's yard that they are looking for someplace to move
into that offers food. Sort of like Europeans moving into the New
World (emptied of native populations because the natives had never
encountered the diseases of over-crowded human conditions) from over-
crowded Europe. Empty space looks really inviting when too many
individuals are trying to divide up a limited food resource.
>
> So, you have to make your food resource look un-inviting. Or you
have to have predators, parasites and diseases lying in wait for the
colonists.
>
> It's what we do with white fly, mites, colorado potato beetle, and
pine bark beetle. Look at the work with WormGold Solution (actively
aerated compost tea by any other name) - they have 100% protected
pine trees from bark beetle infestion. Take a look at their
website - www.wormgold.com Those trees treated with compost tea,
even AFTER the beetle attacked and the tree was dying, have been
brought back to health (green needles, new growth).
>
> Mechanism? Spray the surface of the treee - bark, needles,
everything, with an ADEQUATE SET OF BIOLOGY. The beetles themselves
carry the inoculum of beneficials into the tree. The other
microarthropods that use the beetle tunnels (called galleries) bring
the inoculum of good guys into the galleries. The fungus that
normally causes the gumming up of the tree's water up-take channels
is not a good competitor, and thus does not grow, does not kill the
tree.
>
> But you have to make sure that the biology needed is in the tea.
The folks making the machine which can make this tea have figured
out EXACTLY what you need to make a good tea with their machine.
>
> They get adamant that you don't play games with the recipe. Try a
different set of foods, or use a compost that doesn't have the right
biology in the compost, is't known to be good, fungal dominated
compost, then sorry, all bets are off. They will not accept that
they are responsible for your "tea" not working.
>
> Which is as it should be. If you take a microwave oven, and
change it, the manufacturer of the machine is not responsible for
you burning down your house because the machine explodes. If you
buy a recipe for bread, and then add something not in the recipe,
the seller of the recipe is not responsible when your bread doesn't
rise.
>
> Play game with the ingredients for the tea, and sorry, don't
complain when the tea doesn't do what it should do, could do.
>
> So, dakesian, I'll look over your responses to what I asked, but I
think I'll do it as a response back to just you.
>
> Unless people e-mail to say that I should keep the exchange going
where everyone can read and learn, I'll do this one-on-one with
dakesian. OK?
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com



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Received on Thu Jan 08 2004 - 10:41:44 EST

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