Re: [compost_tea] Water temps for brewing

From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:26:54 -0500

Hi Ted -

Hopefully this discussion is useful to others, even though it is getting to the indiivdual fact stage. If it seems to be too specific, just let us know and we'll take this off the list serve.

> I actually have some saline but wasn't sure exactly how to use it.

Use the saline in place of the tap water or distilled water. The match with physiological cell concentrations of salt will give more accurate number assessment.

>I can't tell what type they are only that they are there. I look at this frequency then I look to see how this frequency transfers to the soil. I don't test immediately but wait a while. I can only get trends, of course, but if those trends can be repeated with regularity, I feel more confident.

Yes, this is one kind of information, and quite useful. If you know the soil had 100 bacteria, and 5 micrometers of hyphae (assess types based on morphology - that's how you determine actinobacteria from true fungi) before you added any compost or compost tea, and then a week later, you had 1000 bacteria and 20 micrometers length of hyphae, and a change in morphology, you know the tea improved things.

But, what if you saw fewer organisms after you added the tea? You might mistakenly assume that the tea was "no good", when in fact it was fine, but there was a toxic material in the soil that killed your organisms. Tillage, too much water, too little water, pesticide or herbicide residue, drift, air pollution, all can harm the organisms in the soil, or on leaf surfaces. So, don't jump to the wrong conclusion.

One way to know the tea was good is to look at the tea and assess bacteria and fungi in the tea. Then you would know the tea was "good" or not (lots of organisms, or lacking lots of organisms, for example), and can better fine-tune what the low organism numbers in the soil means.

 
> I can't even be sure that two batches of tea are the same.

But you can look at the biology in the tea, and at least have an idea that numbers of bacteria and hyphal length were high, low, or average.

> I can, of course, shoot for diversity but even with the best compost, I can't be sure of total similarity from batch to batch.

So, also look at the compost with the microscope.

> So I have to rely on trends. If I see certain bodies in my tea and they transfer to the soil and the plant analysis comes back showing improved use of nutrients and the soil food web is established, I have to think what I am doing is working and repeatable to a degree.

And you are correct.

> >> I'm not against training but, quite frankly, do not have the resources to throw myself or someone else into a training program which, I figure, would cost me somewhere in the range of $25K without the $20K microscope. I have to pay the person taking the training, pay for the training and compensate for the time they are not here generating capital.

Well, it does cost money. But your son might be able to train on one thing at a time, like just total bacterial biomass, or total fungal biomass, so he would know what he is looking at, and the correct morphology so he could ID what he was looking at. Training at SFI is about $1000 a week, and in a week, he can do quite a bit of learning - not only about morphology, but the other tricks of the trade, such as buffers, prepping samples correctly to know what the volume of soil is being observed, etc. We do ask for a non-compete, and a continuing quality assurance program, which is related to the number of samples being looked at. We want to make sure your morphological assessment doesn't go off on a tangent.

>He right now has developed a formula to try and predict how many more and the complexity of organisms he is plotting to see if he can predict growth from sample time to sample time.

Quite interesting! As I recall, trying to predict growth based on initial numbers was tried and is written up in either Sylvia's microbiology text book, or Thimann's book on the Life of Bacteria. As long as all growth conditions are held the same from time to time, then the prediction holds well. You have to know the conditions well. It's what we've done at SFI when we look at soils, climate, growing conditions all over the world.

There is a decent relationship between biomass and diversity - usually directly linear as long as there is no toxins in the soil.

> It's like the person who said: "You are very difficult to argue with because you keep refuting my arguments with facts."

I certainly try to keep myself to "The facts, ma'am, and just the facts". If you ever think I get off on a non-fact tangent, give a shout.

This has been a fun discussion. Thank you!

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com

 

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Received on Tue Jan 20 2004 - 17:12:45 EST

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