RE: [compost_tea] Powdery mildew, ACT, Grapes, and Roses

From: Ryan, Matthew <matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:14:51 -0400
Ted and others,



I really can't speak about the use of roses as an indicator for grape powde= ry mildew.  However, if you think about the disease triangle where you= need a host, pathogen, and environment (or conducive weather) to result in= disease, than one might suspect that the rose powdery mildew is an indicat= ion of appropriate environment or weather conditions that would allow for p= owdery mildew growth.  It's possible that both rose powdery mildew and= grape powdery mildew have similar requirements for growth, and perhaps the= rose mildew is more aggressive.  Thus it could be a useful indicator = for grape powdery mildew, but like I said I really don't know.



Thanks Tom for the abstract. 



Matt



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn= .net]
      Sent: Tue 10/26/2004 3:09 PM
      To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
      Cc:
      Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopatholog= y journal article on compost tea, November 2004
     
     
      Matt et al:
     
      This comports with my findings.  It is = interesting that there are different mildew pathogens for different plants.=   I wasn't aware of this.  It leads me to question why the vinyar= ds so consistently use roses at the end of vine rows as mildew indicators.&= nbsp; Do you have any information on that?  In the wine growing course= s taught at our local ag university, roses are promoted as mildew indicator= s.  Instead of checking the entire row, the rose is checked.  If = the rose shows mildew, there is a high certainty that the grapes have milde= w.  I work with 5 different vinyards in somewhat different microclimat= es and all use roses as indicators.  Maybe the mildew that attackes ro= ses does so before the mildew that attacks vines? 
     
      I quote from the Rodale's: All New Encyclope= dia of Organic Farming. 1992, p. 290 (Under the heading Grape).  Sulfu= r dust or spray helps prevent disease.  If you've had past problems wi= th disease, you may want to consider a regular preventive (sic) spray progr= am.  Coat all parts of the vines, including the undersides of leaves, = before symptoms appear. Apply . . . every two weeks until 4-6 weeks before = harvest.
     
      On the same page, it list a beetle control u= sing Bacillus thruingiensis.
     
      Ted Peterson
      EW/SOE

            ----- Origina= l Message -----
            From: Ryan, M= atthew <mailto:matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org> 
            To: compost_t= ea_at_yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday,= October 25, 2004 2:03 PM
            Subject: RE: = [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2= 004

              &= nbsp;   Hi Ted, Tom, Titel, and others.
           
              &= nbsp;  
           
              &= nbsp;   It’s been a while since I posted last, but I do s= till read the posts and I thought that I could shed some light on this subj= ect of powdery mildew and compost tea.  First off, you guys are talkin= g about different pathogens.  Grape powdery mildew caused by Uncinula = necator, which is different from the powdery mildew on roses which is cause= d by Sphaerotheca pannosa.  Thus you can't really compare the effects = from tea on the powdery mildew on these different plants because were talki= ng about different pathogens.  Second, since powdery mildew usually pr= efers dry weather and does not like rain, it is possible that spraying just= plain water will result in a reduction of infection.    =
           
              &= nbsp;  
           
              &= nbsp;   In our research at Rodale we found that ACT did suppress = grape powdery mildew at one of the vineyards in one of the two years were e= xperimented, but this was only about 50% suppression and was not adequate f= rom the grower’s perspective.  In the second year we did not o= bserve any powdery mildew suppression at any of the three vineyards we were= collaborating with.  So it seems like there is potential, but ACT for= disease suppression really needs some major developments before it can be = recommended with confidence (ie. purchase crop if suppression fails like Te= d mentioned) to growers.
           
              &= nbsp;  
           
              &= nbsp;   I also wanted to mention that Tom has a good point - &quo= t;As hard as I search I still haven’t found an article on disease s= uppression supporting ACT by your methodologies".
           
              &= nbsp;  
           
              &= nbsp;   I hope that I have not offended anybody, just wanted to s= hed some light in a constructive sense. 
           
              &= nbsp;  
           
              &= nbsp;   Matt Ryan
           
              &= nbsp;   The Rodale Institute
           
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   -----Original Message-----
              &= nbsp;   From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
              &= nbsp;   Sent: Thu 10/21/2004 2:19 AM
              &= nbsp;   To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
              &= nbsp;   Cc:
              &= nbsp;   Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal art= icle on compost tea, November 2004
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   ----- Original Message -----
              &= nbsp;   From: Titel Ryzhomer <mailto:thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>= ; 
              &= nbsp;   To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
              &= nbsp;   Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:15 PM
              &= nbsp;   Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article= on compost tea, November 2004
           
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Hi Ted,
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Yes, I've actually observed with magnification the powder= y mildew
              &= nbsp;   structure breaking down after spraying (under magnificati= on it has a
              &= nbsp;   building block, almost geodesic (sp) structure) and event= ually
              &= nbsp;   disappearing, sometimes leaving a scar. This efficacy has= not been
              &= nbsp;   apparent with every batch of CT, however other batches ha= ve helped
              &= nbsp;   to control it as you have indicated regarding grape plant= s. I am
              &= nbsp;   aware that there are many types of powdery mildew and per= haps this
              &= nbsp;   CT is working only on the variety we have growing here on=
              &= nbsp;   delphineas, roses, some herbs, Indian Hemp or Dogbane {Ap= ocynum
              &= nbsp;   androsaemifolium} and a weed that appears to belong to th= e Evening
              &= nbsp;   Primrose family. It has been quite easy to induce the pow= dery mildew
              &= nbsp;   (for research purposes) through use of poor growing condi= tions, etc.
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   I hope this helps to clarify.
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Regards,
              &= nbsp;   Titel
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Well, I will have to say this is amazing.  In all th= e tests I have run here I have seen nothing like this.  We have severa= l vinyards using different brewers from different makers and some home ones= knocked off of mine and Earth Works and a lot of different recipes.  = I haven't heard reports like yours from any of them.  Most vinyards us= e Roses as indicator plants because powdery mildew will usually show up the= re before grapes. If the vinyard people see it on the roses they can be pre= tty sure it's in the vines.  I tried spraying right on the roses with = full strength tea and it did nothing to the mildew that was already there.&= nbsp; It did prevent the mildew from spreading but did absolutely nothing t= o the existing mildew on the plant.  In addition, I had to spray every= day to prevent the spread.  When I stopped spraying, the mildew start= ed spreading in 1 to 2 weeks depending on mildew pressure.
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Do you have controls?  Did you try spraying with jus= t molasses or just water?  Could it be that there was a residue of fun= gicide that was activated when you sprayed?  Was the sprayer you used = completely clean of fungicides?  Did you add anything to the tea that = was a form of organic fungicide that you didn't explain in your message?&nb= sp;
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Here is the problem I have:  I did not see and have = not seen anything even close to what you are describing.  If I believe= what you say and go to a vinyard and present CT as able to cure powdery mi= ldew and it doesn't, I am financially responsible for their loss of product= .  Are you sure enough of what you posted about eradication of powdery= mildew to back up that claim to a grower?  Would you be willing to go= to a grower and state if he follows your directions and the mildew does no= t subside that you would compensate him for the loss?
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   The tests I made were on conventional vines, organic vine= s and patches that were separated by enough distance to give pretty accurac= t results.  One vinyard was in a medium to high mildew pressure area a= nd the other was in an area that was traditionally low mildew pressure.&nbs= p; I did see the outbreaks controlled in every vinyard I have applied tea i= nstead of conventional fungicide but even in the most successful vinyards, = we got minor outbreaks.  I treated those with fungicide after I determ= ined that tea could do nothing to eradicate the mildew.  So your post = is very interesting to me.  Do you have any lab test to substantiate w= hat you say?  Would you be willing to let me contact the grower and fi= nd out his/her impression of what happened?  If what you say is true, = you may have found something worth a fortune to organic growers.  <= BR>               &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   I now have contracts with 5 vinyards and have sprayed a l= ot of tea over almost three years.  I have done a lot of tests and am = still unprepared to make the statement you have made after 7 months so I am= very interested to learn where you are having success when nobody I know, = even other consultants, are having the same results.
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   You mentioned inducing mildew as the result of poor growi= ng conditions.  The spread of mildew has not been the result of poor g= rowing conditions as far as I can tell.  It attacks both conventional = and organicically managed plants with equal vengence.  I have seen it = attack in extremely well managed vinyards and skip poorly managed vinyards = and vice-versa.
              &= nbsp;  
              &= nbsp;   Ted Peterson
              &= nbsp;   EW/SOE
           
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Received on Tue Oct 26 2004 - 23:12:15 EDT

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