RE: [compost_tea] Powdery mildew, ACT, Grapes, and Roses
Ted and others,
I really can't speak about the use of roses as an indicator for grape powde=
ry mildew. However, if you think about the disease triangle where you=
need a host, pathogen, and environment (or conducive weather) to result in=
disease, than one might suspect that the rose powdery mildew is an indicat=
ion of appropriate environment or weather conditions that would allow for p=
owdery mildew growth. It's possible that both rose powdery mildew and=
grape powdery mildew have similar requirements for growth, and perhaps the=
rose mildew is more aggressive. Thus it could be a useful indicator =
for grape powdery mildew, but like I said I really don't know.
Thanks Tom for the abstract.
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn=
.net]
Sent: Tue 10/26/2004 3:09 PM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopatholog=
y journal article on compost tea, November 2004
Matt et al:
This comports with my findings. It is =
interesting that there are different mildew pathogens for different plants.=
I wasn't aware of this. It leads me to question why the vinyar=
ds so consistently use roses at the end of vine rows as mildew indicators.&=
nbsp; Do you have any information on that? In the wine growing course=
s taught at our local ag university, roses are promoted as mildew indicator=
s. Instead of checking the entire row, the rose is checked. If =
the rose shows mildew, there is a high certainty that the grapes have milde=
w. I work with 5 different vinyards in somewhat different microclimat=
es and all use roses as indicators. Maybe the mildew that attackes ro=
ses does so before the mildew that attacks vines?
I quote from the Rodale's: All New Encyclope=
dia of Organic Farming. 1992, p. 290 (Under the heading Grape). Sulfu=
r dust or spray helps prevent disease. If you've had past problems wi=
th disease, you may want to consider a regular preventive (sic) spray progr=
am. Coat all parts of the vines, including the undersides of leaves, =
before symptoms appear. Apply . . . every two weeks until 4-6 weeks before =
harvest.
On the same page, it list a beetle control u=
sing Bacillus thruingiensis.
Ted Peterson
EW/SOE
----- Origina=
l Message -----
From: Ryan, M=
atthew <mailto:matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org>
To: compost_t=
ea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday,=
October 25, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: =
[compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2=
004
&=
nbsp; Hi Ted, Tom, Titel, and others.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; It’s been a while since I posted last, but I do s=
till read the posts and I thought that I could shed some light on this subj=
ect of powdery mildew and compost tea. First off, you guys are talkin=
g about different pathogens. Grape powdery mildew caused by Uncinula =
necator, which is different from the powdery mildew on roses which is cause=
d by Sphaerotheca pannosa. Thus you can't really compare the effects =
from tea on the powdery mildew on these different plants because were talki=
ng about different pathogens. Second, since powdery mildew usually pr=
efers dry weather and does not like rain, it is possible that spraying just=
plain water will result in a reduction of infection.
=
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; In our research at Rodale we found that ACT did suppress =
grape powdery mildew at one of the vineyards in one of the two years were e=
xperimented, but this was only about 50% suppression and was not adequate f=
rom the grower’s perspective. In the second year we did not o=
bserve any powdery mildew suppression at any of the three vineyards we were=
collaborating with. So it seems like there is potential, but ACT for=
disease suppression really needs some major developments before it can be =
recommended with confidence (ie. purchase crop if suppression fails like Te=
d mentioned) to growers.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; I also wanted to mention that Tom has a good point - &quo=
t;As hard as I search I still haven’t found an article on disease s=
uppression supporting ACT by your methodologies".
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; I hope that I have not offended anybody, just wanted to s=
hed some light in a constructive sense.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Matt Ryan
&=
nbsp; The Rodale Institute
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; -----Original Message-----
&=
nbsp; From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
&=
nbsp; Sent: Thu 10/21/2004 2:19 AM
&=
nbsp; To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
&=
nbsp; Cc:
&=
nbsp; Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal art=
icle on compost tea, November 2004
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; ----- Original Message -----
&=
nbsp; From: Titel Ryzhomer <mailto:thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>=
;
&=
nbsp; To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
&=
nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:15 PM
&=
nbsp; Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article=
on compost tea, November 2004
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Hi Ted,
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Yes, I've actually observed with magnification the powder=
y mildew
&=
nbsp; structure breaking down after spraying (under magnificati=
on it has a
&=
nbsp; building block, almost geodesic (sp) structure) and event=
ually
&=
nbsp; disappearing, sometimes leaving a scar. This efficacy has=
not been
&=
nbsp; apparent with every batch of CT, however other batches ha=
ve helped
&=
nbsp; to control it as you have indicated regarding grape plant=
s. I am
&=
nbsp; aware that there are many types of powdery mildew and per=
haps this
&=
nbsp; CT is working only on the variety we have growing here on=
&=
nbsp; delphineas, roses, some herbs, Indian Hemp or Dogbane {Ap=
ocynum
&=
nbsp; androsaemifolium} and a weed that appears to belong to th=
e Evening
&=
nbsp; Primrose family. It has been quite easy to induce the pow=
dery mildew
&=
nbsp; (for research purposes) through use of poor growing condi=
tions, etc.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; I hope this helps to clarify.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Regards,
&=
nbsp; Titel
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Well, I will have to say this is amazing. In all th=
e tests I have run here I have seen nothing like this. We have severa=
l vinyards using different brewers from different makers and some home ones=
knocked off of mine and Earth Works and a lot of different recipes. =
I haven't heard reports like yours from any of them. Most vinyards us=
e Roses as indicator plants because powdery mildew will usually show up the=
re before grapes. If the vinyard people see it on the roses they can be pre=
tty sure it's in the vines. I tried spraying right on the roses with =
full strength tea and it did nothing to the mildew that was already there.&=
nbsp; It did prevent the mildew from spreading but did absolutely nothing t=
o the existing mildew on the plant. In addition, I had to spray every=
day to prevent the spread. When I stopped spraying, the mildew start=
ed spreading in 1 to 2 weeks depending on mildew pressure.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Do you have controls? Did you try spraying with jus=
t molasses or just water? Could it be that there was a residue of fun=
gicide that was activated when you sprayed? Was the sprayer you used =
completely clean of fungicides? Did you add anything to the tea that =
was a form of organic fungicide that you didn't explain in your message?&nb=
sp;
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Here is the problem I have: I did not see and have =
not seen anything even close to what you are describing. If I believe=
what you say and go to a vinyard and present CT as able to cure powdery mi=
ldew and it doesn't, I am financially responsible for their loss of product=
. Are you sure enough of what you posted about eradication of powdery=
mildew to back up that claim to a grower? Would you be willing to go=
to a grower and state if he follows your directions and the mildew does no=
t subside that you would compensate him for the loss?
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; The tests I made were on conventional vines, organic vine=
s and patches that were separated by enough distance to give pretty accurac=
t results. One vinyard was in a medium to high mildew pressure area a=
nd the other was in an area that was traditionally low mildew pressure.&nbs=
p; I did see the outbreaks controlled in every vinyard I have applied tea i=
nstead of conventional fungicide but even in the most successful vinyards, =
we got minor outbreaks. I treated those with fungicide after I determ=
ined that tea could do nothing to eradicate the mildew. So your post =
is very interesting to me. Do you have any lab test to substantiate w=
hat you say? Would you be willing to let me contact the grower and fi=
nd out his/her impression of what happened? If what you say is true, =
you may have found something worth a fortune to organic growers.
<=
BR>
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; I now have contracts with 5 vinyards and have sprayed a l=
ot of tea over almost three years. I have done a lot of tests and am =
still unprepared to make the statement you have made after 7 months so I am=
very interested to learn where you are having success when nobody I know, =
even other consultants, are having the same results.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; You mentioned inducing mildew as the result of poor growi=
ng conditions. The spread of mildew has not been the result of poor g=
rowing conditions as far as I can tell. It attacks both conventional =
and organicically managed plants with equal vengence. I have seen it =
attack in extremely well managed vinyards and skip poorly managed vinyards =
and vice-versa.
&=
nbsp;
&=
nbsp; Ted Peterson
&=
nbsp; EW/SOE
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Received on Tue Oct 26 2004 - 23:12:15 EDT
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