RE: [compost_tea] Powdery mildew, ACT, Grapes, and Roses

From: John R <littlejohnnyr_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:41:59 -0700 (PDT)


Avo

To add a little to the rose debate; in the past roses
were considered an indicator of conditions conducive
to mildew (as already mooted here). I'm never heard
what the vignerons of old did if they got mildew prior
copper & sulphur sprays?!
Also, in the days of horse and cart, toward the end of
the day it was not unusual for Mr ed to get a little
lazy and turn too short, leaving cart & strainer post
to do battle. The roses forced the horse to keep wide.
However it's generally accepted these days the whole
point of roses at the end of rows is to look a whole
lot better than a line of posts.

Cheers, and thanks to all who contribute to such an
interesting forum.

John




--- "Ryan, Matthew" <matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org>
wrote:

> Ted and others,
>
>
>
> I really can't speak about the use of roses as an
> indicator for grape powdery mildew. However, if you
> think about the disease triangle where you need a
> host, pathogen, and environment (or conducive
> weather) to result in disease, than one might
> suspect that the rose powdery mildew is an
> indication of appropriate environment or weather
> conditions that would allow for powdery mildew
> growth. It's possible that both rose powdery mildew
> and grape powdery mildew have similar requirements
> for growth, and perhaps the rose mildew is more
> aggressive. Thus it could be a useful indicator for
> grape powdery mildew, but like I said I really don't
> know.
>
>
>
> Thanks Tom for the abstract.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
> Sent: Tue 10/26/2004 3:09 PM
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology
> journal article on compost tea, November 2004
>
>
> Matt et al:
>
> This comports with my findings. It is interesting
> that there are different mildew pathogens for
> different plants. I wasn't aware of this. It leads
> me to question why the vinyards so consistently use
> roses at the end of vine rows as mildew indicators.
> Do you have any information on that? In the wine
> growing courses taught at our local ag university,
> roses are promoted as mildew indicators. Instead of
> checking the entire row, the rose is checked. If
> the rose shows mildew, there is a high certainty
> that the grapes have mildew. I work with 5
> different vinyards in somewhat different
> microclimates and all use roses as indicators.
> Maybe the mildew that attackes roses does so before
> the mildew that attacks vines?
>
> I quote from the Rodale's: All New Encyclopedia of
> Organic Farming. 1992, p. 290 (Under the heading
> Grape). Sulfur dust or spray helps prevent disease.
> If you've had past problems with disease, you may
> want to consider a regular preventive (sic) spray
> program. Coat all parts of the vines, including the
> undersides of leaves, before symptoms appear. Apply
> . . . every two weeks until 4-6 weeks before
> harvest.
>
> On the same page, it list a beetle control using
> Bacillus thruingiensis.
>
> Ted Peterson
> EW/SOE
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan, Matthew
> <mailto:matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org>
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:03 PM
> Subject: RE: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology
> journal article on compost tea, November 2004
>
> Hi Ted, Tom, Titel, and others.
>
>
>
> It’s been a while since I posted last, but
> I do still read the posts and I thought that I could
> shed some light on this subject of powdery mildew
> and compost tea. First off, you guys are talking
> about different pathogens. Grape powdery mildew
> caused by Uncinula necator, which is different from
> the powdery mildew on roses which is caused by
> Sphaerotheca pannosa. Thus you can't really compare
> the effects from tea on the powdery mildew on these
> different plants because were talking about
> different pathogens. Second, since powdery mildew
> usually prefers dry weather and does not like rain,
> it is possible that spraying just plain water will
> result in a reduction of infection.
>
>
>
> In our research at Rodale we found that ACT
> did suppress grape powdery mildew at one of the
> vineyards in one of the two years were experimented,
> but this was only about 50% suppression and was not
> adequate from the grower’s perspective. In the
> second year we did not observe any powdery mildew
> suppression at any of the three vineyards we were
> collaborating with. So it seems like there is
> potential, but ACT for disease suppression really
> needs some major developments before it can be
> recommended with confidence (ie. purchase crop if
> suppression fails like Ted mentioned) to growers.
>
>
>
> I also wanted to mention that Tom has a good
> point - "As hard as I search I still haven’t found
> an article on disease suppression supporting ACT by
> your methodologies".
>
>
>
> I hope that I have not offended anybody,
> just wanted to shed some light in a constructive
> sense.
>
>
>
> Matt Ryan
>
> The Rodale Institute
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Peterson
> [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
> Sent: Thu 10/21/2004 2:19 AM
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re:
> Phytopathology journal article on compost tea,
> November 2004
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Titel Ryzhomer
> <mailto:thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:15 PM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology
> journal article on compost tea, November 2004
>
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> Yes, I've actually observed with
> magnification the powdery mildew
> structure breaking down after spraying
> (under magnification it has a
> building block, almost geodesic (sp)
> structure) and eventually
> disappearing, sometimes leaving a scar. This
> efficacy has not been
> apparent with every batch of CT, however
> other batches have helped
> to control it as you have indicated
> regarding grape plants. I am
> aware that there are many types of powdery
> mildew and perhaps this
> CT is working only on the variety we have
> growing here on
> delphineas, roses, some herbs, Indian Hemp
> or Dogbane {Apocynum
> androsaemifolium} and a weed that appears to
> belong to the Evening
> Primrose family. It has been quite easy to
> induce the powdery mildew
> (for research purposes) through use of poor
> growing conditions, etc.
>
> I hope this helps to clarify.
>
> Regards,
> Titel
>
>
>
> Well, I will have to say this is amazing.
> In all the tests I have run here I have seen nothing
> like this. We have several vinyards using different
> brewers from different makers and some home ones
> knocked off of mine and Earth Works and a lot of
> different recipes. I haven't heard reports like
> yours from any of them. Most vinyards use Roses as
> indicator plants because powdery mildew will usually
> show up there before grapes. If the vinyard people
> see it on the roses they can be pretty sure it's in
> the vines. I tried spraying right on the roses with
> full strength tea and it did nothing to the mildew
> that
=== message truncated ===

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef
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Received on Wed Oct 27 2004 - 09:41:29 EDT

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