RE: [compost_tea] Digest Number 889

From: Pierre-Charles Crozat <pccrozat_at_fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:41:10 +0100
I can't find the TOFGA web site. Anybody has it? thx

-----Message d'origine-----
De : compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea@yahoogroups.com]
Envoyé : November 8, 2004 11:00 PM
À : compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Objet : [compost_tea] Digest Number 889



There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: Warm water 'sea grasses'
           From: "To= m Jaszewski" <tom_at_livesoil.com>
      2. Re: Warm water 'sea grasses'
           From: "Da= vid Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
      3. Re: Re: Warm water 'sea grasses'
           From: David An= derson <squtch_at_gmail.com>
      4. Re: Re: New Invention
           From: "Ki= rk Leonard" <kirkleon_at_open.org>
      5. Re: New Invention
           From: sbrustke= rn_at_aol.com
      6. Re: Re: Tea and powdery mildew
           From: "Mi= ke Barnett" <dreadlox_at_cwjamaica.com>
      7. Re: Digital Microscope
           From: "Mi= ke Barnett" <dreadlox_at_cwjamaica.com>
      8. G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi ever= yone, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks for
the help
           From: "w.= reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
      9. G.S.I. test results add on
           From: "w.= reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
     10. Re: Powdery mildew, ACT, Grapes, and Roses
           From: Carlos D= e Vicente <cdv_es_at_yahoo.es>
     11. Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi every= one, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks
for the help
           From: "Da= vid Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
     12. Article in this month's Acres USA
           From: "Jo= hn Dunbar" <jdunbar_at_dunbarco.com>
     13. Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi every= one, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks
for the help
           From: "to= mjasz" <tom_at_livesoil.com>
     14. Re: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi e= veryone, Dr.e ,ted
,steve,thanks for the help
           From: butch ra= gland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
     15. Re: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi e= veryone, Dr.e ,ted
,steve,thanks for the help
           From: butch ra= gland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
     16. Re: New Invention
           From: "Da= vid Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
     17. Watering
           From: "Bi= ll" <halstead_at_mail.telepac.pt>


________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 05:45:05 -0800
   From: "Tom Jaszewski" <tom_at_livesoil.com>
Subject: RE: Warm water 'sea grasses'

(Sargassum) The South Atlantic Council in December 1998 approved a two-year=
phase out of sargassum collection off the North Carolina coast. Activists from the Center for Marine Conservation, the Environmental Defense Fund and=
ReefKeeper International spoke in favor of banning the harvest of the
seaweed, which is used as habitat by 100 species of fish, more than 200
species of invertebrates, by juvenile sea turtles and migratory sea birds.<= BR> Sargassum circulates from the Sargasso Sea throughout the western Atlantic<= BR> hundreds of miles offshore. A North Carolina company collects the seaweed t= o
produce agricultural products, including fertilizer and animal dietary
supplements. The benefits of these supplements are unclear, said Michelle Duval of EDF. The only company known to take sargassum, it has harvested 10=
tons/ year since 1976. The council capped the harvest at 25 tons/ year unti= l
1/1/01, when it will be banned outright (99U2).

(Seagrass) Worldwide loss of seagrass because of pollution could result in<= BR> "underwater prairies turning into marine deserts". Among species = most
affected: prawns and lobsters. Especially hard-hit are the 20,000 square miles of Australian seagrass beds that contain "half the world's estim= ated
70 species" of sea grasses (Reuters 3/27/00). Sargasso Sea , part of t= he N
Atlantic Ocean, lying roughly between the West Indies and the Azores and from about lat. 20°N to lat. 35°N, in the horse latitudes
<http://= www.infoplease.com/ce6/weather/A0824229.html> . The relatively still=
sea is the center of a great swirl of ocean currents and is a rich field fo= r
the marine biologist. It is noted for the abundance of gulfweed (see seawee= d
<http://www.= infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0844237.html> ) on its surface. The
Bermuda islands are in the northwestern part of the sea.

(Seagrass) Underwater grasses a key habitat component and indicator of
ecological health, reversed recent declines and increased by 7% in
Chesapeake Bay. The growth, however, was limited to the mid bay, up 22%, as=
"acreage declined in the upper and lower bay, down 9%. Total underwate= r
grass acreage increased to 68,125 acres still well below the 600,000 acres<= BR> that protected shoreline and provided food and shelter for many species
around 1900. Much of the grasses were destroyed in the 1960s and 70s when silt from development choked it, while pollution produced algae blooms
blocked sunlight vital to the grasses (AP 6/15/00, GREENLines, 6/27/00,
Issue #1158, The Endangered Species Coalition).

(Seagrass) In the US, more than 50% of the historical seagrass cover has been lost from Tampa Bay, 76% from the Mississippi sound, and 90% from
Galveston Bay due to population growth and water-quality changes (99N2).
(Seagrass) Over-fishing of wrasses and triggerfish off the coast of Haiti,<= BR> the US Virgin Islands and Hainan China caused an explosion in sea urchins which over-grazed the areas' seagrass beds to the point of obliteration
(Mercedes Lee, (mlee_at_audubon.org) 4/14/98 post to (aoc-fishlink@igc.org)).<= BR>
[2] Management of Sargassum
The SAFMC has responsibility under the federal Magnuson-Stevens Act for
managing fisheries and fish habitats in the South Atlantic Exclusive
Economic Zone, from 3 miles out to 200 miles (98D3).

[3] Human Uses of Sargassum
In US East Coast waters, one firm (Aqua 10 Laboratories, Carteret County NC= )
has conducted low-level, variable harvest of sargassum for 20 years. Over that period, a total of 450,000 pounds (wet weight) has been collected. The=
company makes a variety of products, including agricultural fertilizer
additives and swine and poultry feed amendments, and is currently touting the material for treating swine waste (98D3).

Sargassum in the South Atlantic Bight on the US East coast is derived from<= BR> the Sargasso Sea, located in international waters in the quiet zone between=
major oceanic current systems, hundreds of miles offshore. Currents entrain=
sargassum masses, which may then travel inshore, depending on the vagaries<= BR> of the Gulf Stream and associated warm core rings, ultimately being
deposited on US beaches or drifting into the North Atlantic or beyond.
Sargassum reproduces principally through fragmentation. Its productivity offshore is limited by low nutrient availability (98D3).

[4] Role of Sargassum in Marine Ecosystems
The floating seaweeds in the genus Sargassum form a critically important habitat for a wide array of marine organisms in the Western Atlantic Ocean.=
Sargassum forms the "weedlines" so sought after by offshore fishe= rmen. A
spectacular array of biota are closely associated with sargassum at some stage of their life history: over 100 species of fish (including billfishes= ,
dolphin, jacks, triggerfish, snappers, and many others) and over 200 specie= s
of invertebrates. Juvenile sea turtles (4 species) live in sargassum mats;<= BR> migratory seabirds depend upon them for forage sites. In the nutrient poor<= BR> open ocean, sargassum is a unique source of organic matter and of structure= ,
and the linchpin of a complex oceanic ecosystem. Many species are obligator= y
sargassum residents, in at least some life history stages (98D3).

In late 1998, the SAFMC voted to phase out the allowable 'harvest' of
sargassum, allowing the collection of 50,000 pounds "landed weight&quo= t; until
1/1/01 when all collection will be prohibited (pending NMFS approval of the=
SAFMC action). The quota was set at a level significantly higher than recen= t
collection levels (98D3).







-----Original Message-----
From: David Hall [mailto:dchall8_at_texas.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 8:06 AM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [compost_tea] Warm water 'sea grasses'




What's wrong with the Sargasso grasses from the warm Caribbean?








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________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:04:09 -0000
   From: "David Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
Subject: Re: Warm water 'sea grasses'


My question, which maybe I was the only one who understood, has to
do with the specification of cold water kelp, in particular
Ascophyllum nodosum, as the only satisfactory animal feed, soil
amendment, and tea ingredient.  What is magic about the grasses from cold water?

David Hall
San Antonio, TX

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Jaszewski" <tom@l...&= gt; wrote:
> (Sargassum) The South Atlantic Council in December 1998 approved a
two-year
> phase out of sargassum collection off the North Carolina coast.
Activists
> from the Center for Marine Conservation, the Environmental Defense
Fund and
> ReefKeeper International spoke in favor of banning the harvest of
the
> seaweed, which is used as habitat by 100 species of fish, more
than 200
> species of invertebrates, by juvenile sea turtles and migratory
sea birds.
> Sargassum circulates from the Sargasso Sea throughout the western
Atlantic
> hundreds of miles offshore. A North Carolina company collects the
seaweed to
> produce agricultural products, including fertilizer and animal
dietary
> supplements. The benefits of these supplements are unclear, said
Michelle
> Duval of EDF. The only company known to take sargassum, it has
harvested 10
> tons/ year since 1976. The council capped the harvest at 25 tons/
year until
> 1/1/01, when it will be banned outright (99U2).
>





________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:13:11 -0800
   From: David Anderson <squtch_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Warm water 'sea grasses'

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:04:09 -0000, David Hall <dchall8_at_texas.net> wr= ote:
> Ascophyllum nodosum, as the only satisfactory animal feed, soil
> amendment, and tea ingredient.  What is magic about the grasses f= rom
> cold water?

Nothing. It is more a question of how good is it? Rather than if it is
"bad".

It just happens that some of the best species are cold water species.
Not all cold water kelp is as good. And you keep talking about sea
grass, which definitely is not kelp. Kelp is an algae.

My field guide for here in Washington lists 7 types of local green
algae,  17 types of brown algae (that includes all species of kelp, as=
well as sargassum) and 14 types of red algae. It only lists two types
of sea grass. And this is only algae that is big enough to for
macroscopic "plants", and it is only counting the salt water alga= e.

I would be willing to bet that you could get a decent response by
adding fresh water green algae from hawaii to your tea. Give it a test
and report on your results.

Dave


________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:42:31 -0800
   From: "Kirk Leonard" <kirkleon_at_open.org>
Subject: Re: Re: New Invention

Maddening, eh?  Boggles the mind how many times "naturally" = occurs in the
descriptions and yet there's patentability?  And it's likely ALL worm<= BR> castings have chitin degraders in them.

> The chitinase-producing organisms in the worm castings
consisted of five bacteria, four fungi, and five actinomycetes. <

Hahn adds cardboard to his feed stream to boost chitin degraders, I believe= .

David is right.  This just gives Hahn a corner on marketing castings f= or
"insect repellency" and some kind of amorphous fungal control, so= it's a
marketing ploy.  Now someone should patent vermi as a natural fertiliz= er...

It will be interesting to see what happens if this ever gets to a court, indeed.  In the meantime, if you don't market castings specifically fo= r
insect repellency or fungal control, there's zero impact.

But since these are naturally occuring properties of both vermicompost and<= BR> compost at various levels I can't see how mention of them can be challenged=
unless Hahn can show how they can be specifically removed.  Boy, would= n't
that be productive...?

I hope no one changes anything you do with vermicompost based on this crap.=

The work Hahn has done is not crap, btw, the patent is.  The descripti= ons
suggest some good practices and results, imo.  I wonder if he will pub= lish
the studies.

Interesting that USPTO requires so little reported or replicated research o= n
the assertions while USNOP is holding up composts and compost teas, for
which there is much more, because of that.

Kirk




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:28:40 EST
   From: sbrustkern_at_aol.com
Subject: Re: New Invention

Hi Ted,

Love your take on these sorts of things!  Not only are you very  = insightful,
you do it with a wrters flair that i wish I had!

Many thanks,
Steve Brustkern


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:29:20 -0600
   From: "Mike Barnett" <dreadlox_at_cwjamaica.com><= BR> Subject: Re: Re: Tea and powdery mildew

Could you describe what a contained compost machine is?
Does the word "contained" define the compost, or the machine, or = an element
of the machine?
I going with the former, but want to be sure.


Mike, newbie
JAMAICA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Leonard" <kirkleon_at_open.org>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Tea and powdery mildew


>
> Hey Ted -- Has it occurred to you Titel might simply be making better = tea?
> I don't know how he's doing it but I have observed that contained comp= ost
> machines do a better job of extraction, hmm?
>
> -- Kirk



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:45:40 -0600
   From: "Mike Barnett" <dreadlox_at_cwjamaica.com><= BR> Subject: Re: Digital Microscope

How do I contact Malcolm Beck, and where can I read more about the Tea-off?=

Mike, new ACT convert...
JAMAICA

----- Original Message -----
From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <tdodge_at_spiritone.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Digital Microscope


> And we're adding a microscope camera like Malcolm Beck had at the Texa= s
> Tea-Off.  It was so great, and inexpensive too!  Come to the= class, and I
can show
> you how to set this up.  Or go talk to Malcolm.  He has HOUR= S of footage
of
> what we recorded, and what he's recorded.  Great material.  = He needs to
put
> together a CD with all the critters and the picutres he's taken!
>
> And Malcolm still makes the best static compost I've ever seen!  = You want
> lessons on how to make static compost?  Go learn from Malcolm! > Check out the TOFGA website!
>
> Elaine R. Ingham
> Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon
> Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York
> Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia
> Soil Foodweb Institute Cambridge, New Zealand
> Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico
> Soil Foodweb Inc., Jerome, Idaho
> Soil Foodweb Inc., South Africa
>



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:40:52 -0800 (PST)
   From: "w.reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,th= anks for
the help

      Hi everyone hope all is well for everybody. = I have been spraying my
tea on my customer yards for a year now and getting some pretty good result= s
some better than others none doing soil samples so we are doing our best at=
trying to figure out what they get ,   one customer has gone from= watering
everyday to just 3 sometimes 4 days a week depending on the temperatures we=
had this last august we only had one  3 to 5 ft area go brown but that= was
at the entrance to his business and it is surrounded by pavement and cement= .
These numbers are not nessacarily a thumbs up for GSI machine but not bad i= t
has taken me a year and lots of test one specific adjustment to the machine=
and a variety of help from a lot of people in here some incouragement some<= BR> not but all helpfull in the long run some differant compost this specific batch came from a supplier in the northwest just not to mention their name<= BR> in here out of courtesy to them  test date 10/25/04, sample # 99901 ,A= BB /
292 ,TBB /
8,576 ,AFB / 37.0  ,TFB / 45.8  Hyphal Diameter / 3.50 &nbs= p; all excellant ,
Disease suppressive fungi were extracted
      total fungal to total biomass ,0.01  go= od fungal level, will give good
fungal coverage and inoculum into soil   ,   active to = total fungal biomass
0.81   very good fungi are mostly active and growing in tea, will= make good
inoculum in soil   ,active to total bacterial biomass 0.03 / ok h= igh
bacterial biomass achieved  ,   active fungal to active bact= erial biomass
0.13  , good balance for most plants
         I can now say with these #= 's and the letters of recommendation I
have receaved from some of my commercial accounts that I feel quite
comfortable with the brewer that I have and the product that we are putting=
out ,we are still working very hard to learn more and always improve what w= e
are doing. I am sure there is room for improvement on these numbers and we<= BR> are working very hard to do that .
         anyway I just want to say = hi to everyone hope all is going well
look forward to seeing and talking and learning from you all in the future<= BR> ,thanks Reece  , W.& W. Lawn Care / Mother Natures Compost Teas

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________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:47:30 -0800 (PST)
   From: "w.reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: G.S.I. test results add on

These #,s are a gsi 100 gallon machine with a 24 hr brew time,thanks reece<= BR>

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

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________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:57:45 +0100 (CET)
   From: Carlos De Vicente <cdv_es_at_yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Powdery mildew, ACT, Grapes, and Roses

"Bordeaux soup": water diluted copper sulphate + lime = gypsum = + copper
hydroxide (copper is the fungicide).

Regards,
Carlos

soilfoodweb_at_aol.com wrote:
Bordeaux mix which is the traditional, classic, organic way to deal with fungal diseases is a mix of copper, lime and sulfur.

Been in use a long time.  Thank you ANdres for the information on sulf= ur use
in Roman and Greek agriculture.  Do you remember where you found that<= BR> information?  It's always fun to learn of where these materials were f= irst
reported.

Elaine R. Ingham
Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon
Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York
Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia
Soil Foodweb Institute Cambridge, New Zealand
Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico
Soil Foodweb Inc., Jerome, Idaho
Soil Foodweb Inc., South Africa


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________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
   Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:07:28 -0000
   From: "David Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
Subject: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,stev= e,thanks
for the help


I don't mean this to sound like I'm taking issue with your results,
but I've been talking with professionals and homeowners for several
years on the forums.  One thing we agreed upon a couple years ago is that when you extend your watering times, even on a full chemical
maintenance program in the middle of the Arizona desert, your turf
will look much better.  It takes very little management to go from
daily watering to weekly, semi-weekly, or even (much) longer
watering cycles.  My next door neighbor did not water her turf for 5 full years and her lawn always looked better than mine (much to my
chagrin, but I learned from it).

So all I'm saying is that using watering frequency as a measure
of 'goodness' of your tea is of no value.  I could start out with a horrible lawn, make a tea that was simply dissolved ammonium nitrate
in a 2,4-d base, and make the same claim at the end of the season
simply with proper watering management.

I think a better measure for tea is the cost of materials used per
1,000 square feet per year.  Those on a chemical program will have
fertilizer cost ($1 per 1,000 square feet per application times 4
applications per year), herbicide ($1 per 1,000 square feet per
application times 2 applications per year), and fungicide ($15 per
1,000 square feet times 2 applications per year).  Plus they have
the additional hassle of trying to figure out what their problems
are (insect damage or disease), what to use on it, how to use it as
safely as possible, what else to buy when it doesn't seem to work
the first time, and where to get a good deal after the see the price
of fungicide.  Whereas compost tea typically costs $0.10-$0.30 per
1,000 square feet times 4 applications per year with no herbicide or
fungicide needed.  You still might want to fertilize with organic
fertilizer.  I like corn meal at $1 per 1,000 square feet times 4
applications per year.

David Hall
San Antonio, TX


--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "w.reece speas" <wrspeas@y= ...>
wrote:
>       Hi everyone hope all is well for e= verybody. I have been
spraying my tea on my customer yards for a year now and getting some
pretty good results some better than others none doing soil samples
so we are doing our best at trying to figure out what they get ,
one customer has gone from watering everyday to just 3 sometimes 4
days a week depending on the temperatures we had this last august we
only had one  3 to 5 ft area go brown but that was at the entrance
to his business and it is surrounded by pavement and cement.
These numbers are not nessacarily a thumbs up for GSI machine but
not bad it has taken me a year and lots of test one specific
adjustment to the machine and a variety of help from a lot of people
in here some incouragement some not but all helpfull in the long run
some differant compost this specific batch came from a supplier in
the northwest just not to mention their name in here out of courtesy
to them  test date 10/25/04, sample # 99901 ,ABB / 292 ,TBB /
>  8,576 ,AFB / 37.0  ,TFB / 45.8  Hyphal Diameter / 3.50=    all
excellant , Disease suppressive fungi were extracted






________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:17:42 -0600
   From: "John Dunbar" <jdunbar_at_dunbarco.com>
Subject: Article in this month's Acres USA

Interesting article on compost teas and combining Albrecht method with
biostimulants in this month's Acres USA (November, 2004).

The article is by David Hudson in Britain.  There is a nice chart on c= ost,
revenues and yields comparing: conventional, organic and "bioagronomy&= quot;
approaches.  "Bioagronomy" is their new term for Albrecht + = microbial mixes
applied to soil and foliarly.  The author also discusses disease suppr= ession
and prevention.

Yields for Bioagronomy, Conventional, and Organic approaches (potatoes)
were: 23.4 tons/ha, 20.1, 16.0 tons/ha.  Profit margin per hectare (ha= )
were: 3,815, 2,800, and 3205 British Pounds per ha.  The Organic appro= ach
received a large price premium thus increasing its economic benefit.

John


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:20:09 -0000
   From: "tomjasz" <tom_at_livesoil.com>
Subject: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,stev= e,thanks
for the help


-- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Hall" <dchall8@t...&= gt; wrote:

>
> So all I'm saying is that using watering frequency as a measure
> of 'goodness' of your tea is of no value.  I could start out with= a
> horrible lawn, make a tea that was simply dissolved ammonium
nitrate
> in a 2,4-d base, and make the same claim at the end of the season
> simply with proper watering management.

That judgment may be a bit over the top. Here in Las Vegas we have
seen lots of turf type fescue lawns with 2-3" root zones. As a result<= BR> we were NEVER able to skip watering days. It was also very difficult
to get sufficient watering depth without soil structure. In this
scenario using compost tea to develop a soil food web AND soil
structure CLEARLY saved water and allowed to develop the kind of
watering schedules you suggest.


Tom Jaszewski
Las Vegas






________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:26:51 -0800 (PST)
   From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks for the help

I think I know but humor me. Describe your soil type?
And, the drainage situation?
--- tomjasz <tom_at_livesoil.com> wrote:

>
> -- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Hall"
> <dchall8_at_t...> wrote:
>
> >
> > So all I'm saying is that using watering frequency
> as a measure
> > of 'goodness' of your tea is of no value.  I could
> start out with a
> > horrible lawn, make a tea that was simply
> dissolved ammonium
> nitrate
> > in a 2,4-d base, and make the same claim at the
> end of the season
> > simply with proper watering management.
>
> That judgment may be a bit over the top. Here in Las
> Vegas we have
> seen lots of turf type fescue lawns with 2-3" root
> zones. As a result
> we were NEVER able to skip watering days. It was
> also very difficult
> to get sufficient watering depth without soil
> structure. In this
> scenario using compost tea to develop a soil food
> web AND soil
> structure CLEARLY saved water and allowed to develop
> the kind of
> watering schedules you suggest.
>
>
> Tom Jaszewski
> Las Vegas
>
>
>
>
>


=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:27:22 -0800 (PST)
   From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: G.S. I . Tea results,   Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks for the help

I think I know but humor me. Describe your soil type?
And, the drainage situation?
--- tomjasz <tom_at_livesoil.com> wrote:

>
> -- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Hall"
> <dchall8_at_t...> wrote:
>
> >
> > So all I'm saying is that using watering frequency
> as a measure
> > of 'goodness' of your tea is of no value.  I could
> start out with a
> > horrible lawn, make a tea that was simply
> dissolved ammonium
> nitrate
> > in a 2,4-d base, and make the same claim at the
> end of the season
> > simply with proper watering management.
>
> That judgment may be a bit over the top. Here in Las
> Vegas we have
> seen lots of turf type fescue lawns with 2-3" root
> zones. As a result
> we were NEVER able to skip watering days. It was
> also very difficult
> to get sufficient watering depth without soil
> structure. In this
> scenario using compost tea to develop a soil food
> web AND soil
> structure CLEARLY saved water and allowed to develop
> the kind of
> watering schedules you suggest.
>
>
> Tom Jaszewski
> Las Vegas
>
>
>
>
>


=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:28:02 -0000
   From: "David Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
Subject: Re: New Invention


The US Patent Office is a wonderful place.  I absolutely rely on it for learning the "secrets" of many of life's pleasures.  If = you want
to keep something a proprietary secret, the US Patent Office will
not help you.

For example, if you find the site, search around for the secret to
Colonel Sanders Kentucky Fried Chicken.  You'll find that his
famous "11 herbs and spices," is actually...salt, pepper, and MSG= .
I have also learned the recipe for garlic extract for fungal
disease control.  It's a great place.

But for another glimpse at our patent system, when I was doing
research and development in the US Air Force, we periodically held
meetings for all our contractors to stay on top of the state of the
art that we were all working to push ahead.  At one meeting a
brainstorming session developed where a suggestion for a new concept
was made and was generally considered to be a pretty darned good
idea.  Everyone went home and the two companies that had a direct
interest in the idea were encouraged to start working on a practical
application of the idea.  Fast forward 90 days and lo and behold, a different company was issued a patent for the idea!  We jumped
through a lot of hoops to get that patent canceled or rescinded or
whatever, but in the end, that company held the exclusive commercial
rights to any practical application of that idea with a free license
granted to the USAF.  In retrospect it turns out there probably was no commercial application of that idea because it was so specific to
the weapon we were working on, but the idea that someone
could "steal" that idea from an open meeting really slammed the d= oor
on our open exchange meetings.

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, sbrustkern@a... wrote:
> Hi Ted,
>
> Love your take on these sorts of things!  Not only are you very insightful,
> you do it with a wrters flair that i wish I had!
>
> Many thanks,
> Steve Brustkern





________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
   Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:48:53 -0000
   From: "Bill" <halstead_at_mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Watering

Re David Hall's remarks.

"It takes very little management to go from
daily watering to weekly, semi-weekly, or even (much) longer
watering cycles.  My next door neighbour did not water her turf for 5<= BR> full years and her lawn always looked better than mine (much to my
chagrin, but I learned from it).  "



Perhaps David would fill us in on his management techniques.

Here in my nine years of retirement in Portugal on sandy soil I have learnt=
that without daily irigation in the months of June to October I would have<= BR> no lawn or strawberries etc. The citrus trees would manage with a soaking a=
week but use less water with a daily drip and fortnighly soaking.

I have had to replant my lawn during this period due to lack of irrigation<= BR> Been using ACT for three years now and convinced by my OWN observations tha= t
I am using less water and having very good results

Farmed 42 yrears in a rain shadowed area on good soil in Africa and fully aware of the neccesity of moisture conservation and experienced the
financial results of not enough rain fall on large scale cereal production.=

Bill

[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________


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Received on Thu Nov 11 2004 - 11:16:07 EST

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