RE: [compost_tea] Digest Number 894 re buch (and others)

From: Pierre-Charles Crozat <pccrozat_at_fastmail.fm>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:37:36 +0100
This forum is very difficult to follow :
- because the subject of compost tea is very complex
- because the language is English (not a mother tongue for everybody)
- because the thread is sometime confused
- ...
it would be really valuable for those of us who are only interested in ACT<= BR> related issues that every time that someone feels that their message is
somewhat off the subject they warn the others (in the "object" fo= r example)
for the sake of clarity. Or could the moderator do that?
Thank you
Pierre

-----Message d'origine-----
De : compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea@yahoogroups.com]
Envoyé : November 12, 2004 4:26 PM
À : compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Objet : [compost_tea] Digest Number 894



There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: Digest Number 889
           From: soilfood= web_at_aol.com
      2. Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: soilfood= web_at_aol.com
      3. Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: butch ra= gland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
      4. Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: "Ti= tel Ryzhomer" <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
      5. Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: butch ra= gland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
      6. Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: "Ti= tel Ryzhomer" <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
      7. Compost tea in Quauhtemoc
           From: "St= eve Diver" <steved_at_ncat.org>
      8. Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: butch ra= gland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
      9. Re: Digest Number 889
           From: "St= eve Bridges" <steve_at_texasgrown.com>
     10. Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: "Da= vid Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
     11. Re: G.S.I. machine adjustment
           From: "w.= reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
     12. Jeff,thanks for being positive
           From: "w.= reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
     13. Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)
           From: "Ro= n Poitras" <ronp_at_acadia.net>


________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:15:43 -0500
   From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
Subject: RE: Digest Number 889

Contact is Steve Bridges, steve_at_texasgrown.com  who is the current Pre= sident
of TOFGA.  Hopefully he'll know the website address!  Grin!

--
Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
SFI South Africa
http://www.soilfoodweb.com



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:46:58 -0500
   From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)

Butch -

I'm arguing with you about anything.

I'm stating what I know.  I'm sending you to people - Bruce and Malcol= m -
that I have gotten knowledge from, because I don't have data that can
contribute to the disparate views on the situation.  The difference be= tween
juniper and cedar?  They both have phenols, tannins and terpenes that = can
stop microbial decomposition.  Is there a difference between them?&nbs= p; Yes.
What are those differences?  I don't have a list of phenolic compounds= for
each type of wood.

Hopefully you can state what you know, without attacking someone else, or feeling attacked by the fact someone else has different experience, or
knowledge, and without feeling that others are arguing with you.

As long as we stay out of the name-calling arena, as long as we don't label=
the other person in any way, as long as we respect the other peson, it
remains a conversation.

I don't like having my comments labeled as being argumentative when in fact= ,
I am only stating my knowledge.  I don't tell others that they are stu= pid,
or impossible, or suggest that others are bad people, or difficult, or
confrontive.

Why does statement of information become an attack on someone else?  I= t
should not be taken that way.

If I'd said "that comment was stupid" then you'd have the right t= o be
offended.  But all I did was state that my experience is that Bruce, w= ho
works closely with Malcolm, had agreed with what I was saying about "N=
suck-up mode", and the phenol problem the last time I talked with him.=

But, the best thing is then to go talk to Malcolm, or Bruce, and make sure<= BR> that what people think they heard from them is actually what they are
saying.  Especially on the radio, or TV, or other electronic forms of<= BR> communication, it is easy to not get the whole conversation or the whole concept, because you got distracted while the show was on, and you missed the informaiton.  Or, the folk on the radio forgot to say that, oh yea= h, you
have to let the chips age after you chunk them up.

I get mis-quoted all the time, and I appreciate it when people come back to=
me and clarify what they thought they heard.  People have "quoted= " me as
saying things that were just out-rageous, and that anyone who knew me would=
know was something that would never come out of my mouth.

So, let's go back to where people think they heard something very different= ,
and get the situation clarified, instead going on and on about something without solid knowledge.

And, please, stop viewing statements of what I know as confrontive or
argumentative, or anything else.  Stop reading attitudes or view point= s into
what I say that simply are not there.

--
Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
SFI South Africa
http://www.soilfoodweb.com



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:57:30 -0800 (PST)
   From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)

interesting little exercise illustrating how seductive
conflict is.

absolutely nothing in that post addressed you and in
fact had nothing to do with you.

yet, you used I, I'm, Me 21 times responding.

conflict does not further science

i find myself sorting through egos trying to learn

--- soilfoodweb_at_aol.com wrote:

> Butch -
> I'm arguing with you about anything.
> I'm stating what I know.

=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:01:06 -0000
   From: "Titel Ryzhomer" <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>= ;
Subject: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)


Butch is it?,

Perhaps you would elucidate what science, barring the blurred art of
scientific conflict seduction, is contained in your statement.

"unless of course it IS all about me, in that case i
will tell you how it IS"

Laughing,
Titel


--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland <wilddog_202@y...><= BR> wrote:
> interesting little exercise illustrating how seductive
> conflict is.
>
> absolutely nothing in that post addressed you and in
> fact had nothing to do with you.
>
> yet, you used I, I'm, Me 21 times responding.
>
> conflict does not further science
>
> i find myself sorting through egos trying to learn
>
> --- soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
>
> > Butch -
> > I'm arguing with you about anything.
> > I'm stating what I know.
>
> =====
> Butch Ragland
> Conflict is as addictive as
> cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> I'm sorry to report that
> cooperation is not
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com





________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:25:08 -0800 (PST)
   From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)

psychology as applied by Steven covey and i taught
classes to corporations on cooperation.

the difficulty i found changing cultures of conflict i
found in some organizations led to the thought i sign
with.

but this digresses from the purpose of this list and
no one asked me to lecture here so if you didn't take
notes there will be no question and answer period.



--- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Butch is it?,
>
> Perhaps you would elucidate what science, barring
> the blurred art of
> scientific conflict seduction, is contained in your
> statement.
>
> "unless of course it IS all about me, in that case i
> will tell you how it IS"
>
> Laughing,
> Titel
>
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland
> <wilddog_202_at_y...>
> wrote:
> > interesting little exercise illustrating how
> seductive
> > conflict is.
> >
> > absolutely nothing in that post addressed you and
> in
> > fact had nothing to do with you.
> >
> > yet, you used I, I'm, Me 21 times responding.
> >
> > conflict does not further science
> >
> > i find myself sorting through egos trying to learn
> >
> > --- soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
> >
> > > Butch -
> > > I'm arguing with you about anything.
> > > I'm stating what I know.
> >
> > =====
> > Butch Ragland
> > Conflict is as addictive as
> > cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> > I'm sorry to report that
> > cooperation is not
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> > www.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>


=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:46:35 -0000
   From: "Titel Ryzhomer" <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>= ;
Subject: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)


Over your head huh? sorry

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland <wilddog_202@y...><= BR> wrote:
> psychology as applied by Steven covey and i taught
> classes to corporations on cooperation.
>
> the difficulty i found changing cultures of conflict i
> found in some organizations led to the thought i sign
> with.
>
> but this digresses from the purpose of this list and
> no one asked me to lecture here so if you didn't take
> notes there will be no question and answer period.
>
>
>
> --- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_h...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Butch is it?,
> >
> > Perhaps you would elucidate what science, barring
> > the blurred art of
> > scientific conflict seduction, is contained in your
> > statement.
> >
> > "unless of course it IS all about me, in that case i
> > will tell you how it IS"
> >
> > Laughing,
> > Titel
> >
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland
> > <wilddog_202_at_y...>
> > wrote:
> > > interesting little exercise illustrating how
> > seductive
> > > conflict is.
> > >
> > > absolutely nothing in that post addressed you and
> > in
> > > fact had nothing to do with you.
> > >
> > > yet, you used I, I'm, Me 21 times responding.
> > >
> > > conflict does not further science
> > >
> > > i find myself sorting through egos trying to learn
> > >
> > > --- soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Butch -
> > > > I'm arguing with you about anything.
> > > > I'm stating what I know.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Butch Ragland
> > > Conflict is as addictive as
> > > cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> > > I'm sorry to report that
> > > cooperation is not
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> > > www.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Butch Ragland
> Conflict is as addictive as
> cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> I'm sorry to report that
> cooperation is not
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com





________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:20:04 -0000
   From: "Steve Diver" <steved_at_ncat.org>
Subject: Compost tea in Quauhtemoc


Greetings from Mexico -

Quauhtemoc is in Chihuahua. This is the largest
apple production region in Mexico.  There are
30,000 ha of apples, plus peaches as well.

Compost teas and compost have gained rapid
adoption in just the last 3 years.

There are now 3,000 acres of apples treated
with compost teas.

One group is making a 500 gallon brewer.
There are now 30 brewers in use on orchards.

Foliar applications of 25-50 gallons per acre
are made, with 5 applications per season the
norm. One orchard is making 15 applications
on weekly intervals, starting during bloom.

The growers are reporting greatly reduced
incidence of disease and use of fungicides.

Micro-sprinkler irrigation injection of
compost teas is also made, with 4 applications
per growing season.

Compost is now being made with the HCL Turner
and the Aeromaster Turner.  Typical compost
application rates in orchards here is 1.5 to
2 tons per acre.

Vermicompost is being made. One orchard has
7 ha doubling as vermicompost beds running
down the tree row, 2 meters wide and 6 inches
high.

Biological farming is catching on, and they
are looking for more information and techniques.

One company working in the region has a couple
of biological products and they use a root
micorhizotron for demonstration and research.
That is a remarkable way to see roots, root hairs,
root caps, mucigel, and so forth, even microarthopods
and unknown creatures.  Very cool, very expensive.

I´m here at the 10th Int´l Symposium on
Temperate Fruit Crops, talking about EM
and Compost Teas.

The fruit growers in Quauhtemoc are progressive.

However, drought and electrical costs of pumping
irrigation water and suppressed market prices
amount to economically hard times for fruit growers
here, and elswhere.  It is a world problem.

Adios,
Steve Diver








________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:23:29 -0800 (PST)
   From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)

absolutely and there can be no conflict about that

--- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Over your head huh? sorry
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland
> <wilddog_202_at_y...>
> wrote:
> > psychology as applied by Steven covey and i taught
> > classes to corporations on cooperation.
> >
> > the difficulty i found changing cultures of
> conflict i
> > found in some organizations led to the thought i
> sign
> > with.
> >
> > but this digresses from the purpose of this list
> and
> > no one asked me to lecture here so if you didn't
> take
> > notes there will be no question and answer period.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_h...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Butch is it?,
> > >
> > > Perhaps you would elucidate what science,
> barring
> > > the blurred art of
> > > scientific conflict seduction, is contained in
> your
> > > statement.
> > >
> > > "unless of course it IS all about me, in that
> case i
> > > will tell you how it IS"
> > >
> > > Laughing,
> > > Titel
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch
> ragland
> > > <wilddog_202_at_y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > interesting little exercise illustrating how
> > > seductive
> > > > conflict is.
> > > >
> > > > absolutely nothing in that post addressed you
> and
> > > in
> > > > fact had nothing to do with you.
> > > >
> > > > yet, you used I, I'm, Me 21 times responding.
> > > >
> > > > conflict does not further science
> > > >
> > > > i find myself sorting through egos trying to
> learn
> > > >
> > > > --- soilfoodweb_at_a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Butch -
> > > > > I'm arguing with you about anything.
> > > > > I'm stating what I know.
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Butch Ragland
> > > > Conflict is as addictive as
> > > > cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> > > > I'm sorry to report that
> > > > cooperation is not
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> > > > www.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Butch Ragland
> > Conflict is as addictive as
> > cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
> > I'm sorry to report that
> > cooperation is not
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>


=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:27:05 -0600
   From: "Steve Bridges" <steve_at_texasgrown.com> Subject: Re: Digest Number 889

Pierre-Charles Crozat wrote: I can't find the TOFGA web site. Anybody has<= BR> it? thx

The Texas Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association website is at
www.tofga.org

I would assume from Elaine's email below that you're wanting information about our Godfather of Organics here in Texas, Malcolm Beck. He has a great=
website at www.malcolmbeck.com with the many articles he's written. He
started Garden-Ville of San Antonio, a large commercial composting business=
in 1957. Malcolm's got more common sense and agronomy knowledge than many o= f
the PhD's that he's influenced over the years.

If you would like to speak to Malcolm shoot me an email off list and I'll give you his phone number.
Steve Bridges
TOFGA



> And we're adding a microscope camera like Malcolm Beck had at the Texa= s
> Tea-Off.  It was so great, and inexpensive too!  Come to the= class, and I
can show
> you how to set this up.  Or go talk to Malcolm.  He has HOUR= S of footage
of
> what we recorded, and what he's recorded.  Great material.  = He needs to
put
> together a CD with all the critters and the picutres he's taken!
>
> And Malcolm still makes the best static compost I've ever seen!  = You want
> lessons on how to make static compost?  Go learn from Malcolm! > Check out the TOFGA website!




[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:02:04 -0000
   From: "David Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
Subject: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)


And I thought I was drifting off topic!

I've written to Bruce and described what I thought I heard Malcolm
say about the use of the Texas Hill Country juniper mulch on a peach
orchard.  What I am recalling was from meetings that Malcolm used to host every other month as well as the radio bits he does.  Bruce and I are working on something else right now so in addition to his
normal hectic pace, I'm doubling up on him from my angle.  I told
him if the answer was simple (like I mis heard or there is more
info) that I would get back to this list right away, but if it was
not that simple, that before I attributed anything to him that he
and I would go over everything in a phone conversation (or face to
face).  Anyway there seemed to be only one person with an orchard
interested in tea and watering, so maybe a short hiatus on this
topic won't be missed by the masses.

David Hall
San Antonio, TX

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland <wilddog_202@y...><= BR> wrote:
> absolutely and there can be no conflict about that
>
> --- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_h...> wrote:
>





________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:24:02 -0800 (PST)
   From: "w.reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: G.S.I. machine adjustment

     Hi Dr. E , Thank you for the support and the help.= You made a suggestion
that day you came to the farm about putting something in to keep the debrie= s
flowing on the bottom of my tank,You said its not a bad machine it's just not a good machine the debries stays on the bottom of the tank. It took me = a
while because I was trying to figure out how to use the exhisting air pump<= BR> and add an extra line to feed to the bottom,what to use because you said yo= u
didn't like the air stones finally at the last Ictc meeting in seattle I bought one of bobs small air pumps added an extra line with its own air
supply I feed the extra line right in along side the other one and down to<= BR> the bottom and keep the debries flowing and off the bottom, the extra air I'm sure doesn't hurt either.
      and good compost helps not that I didnt have= it befor because I have
paid to bring in the best it has been a learning process I now have a
conglomeration of various compost and a better understanding of the process=
albeit I still have a lot to learn.
       Thanks to everyone over this last year= I have learned a lot even from
those that I had conflict with in the beginning you made me want to learn more , hope everyone has a great day Thanks Reece, W.& W. Lawn Care&nbs= p; /
Mother Natures Compost Tea's

soilfoodweb_at_aol.com wrote:
I think it is great that Reece has put the work into his brewing efforts to=
know what is going on with the brews he is making.

And that it is possible to get good results from the GSI machine.  Peo= ple
might want to speak with Reece about exactly what he's doing to get these great results!  That is, if Reece is willing to give his secrets away!=

Thanks for sharing, Reece!

--
Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
SFI South Africa
http://www.soilfoodweb.com


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[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:34:46 -0800 (PST)
   From: "w.reece speas" <wrspeas_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Jeff,thanks for being positive

Jeff hope all is well in alaska, my grandson is there so it must be hu lol,=
anyway thanks for being so positive ,thanks reece have a great day!


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:30:08 -0500
   From: "Ron Poitras" <ronp_at_acadia.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Watering (orchard mulch)

The answer to this question about juniper chip mulch is covered in detail o= n
Malcolm Beck's web site. See
http://www.malcolmbeck.com/books/gv_method/CedarFlakesForMulc= hingGrowing.htm

Ron Poitras


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hall" <dchall8_at_texas.net>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:02 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Watering (orchard mulch)


>
>
> And I thought I was drifting off topic!
>
> I've written to Bruce and described what I thought I heard Malcolm
> say about the use of the Texas Hill Country juniper mulch on a peach > orchard.  What I am recalling was from meetings that Malcolm used= to
> host every other month as well as the radio bits he does.  Bruce = and
> I are working on something else right now so in addition to his
> normal hectic pace, I'm doubling up on him from my angle.  I told=
> him if the answer was simple (like I mis heard or there is more
> info) that I would get back to this list right away, but if it was
> not that simple, that before I attributed anything to him that he
> and I would go over everything in a phone conversation (or face to
> face).  Anyway there seemed to be only one person with an orchard=
> interested in tea and watering, so maybe a short hiatus on this
> topic won't be missed by the masses.
>
> David Hall
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, butch ragland <wilddog_202@y...= >
> wrote:
>> absolutely and there can be no conflict about that
>>
>> --- Titel Ryzhomer <thegoodjob_at_h...> wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________


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Received on Mon Nov 15 2004 - 10:40:53 EST

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