[compost_tea] Re: smell while brewing

From: pierre charles crozat <pccrozat_at_fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:30:29 -0000

EI said <Fermenting implies an anaerobic condition, not merely a
condition in
which microbes are growing.  I perceive that there was a change in the use
of the term in the microbial world when beer was defined as being
produced
through  a fermentative process involving the production of alcohol. <= BR> Fermentation, at least among the microbiologists I was trained  by, means a condition where alcohol is produced, which requires
anaerobic 
conditions. Aerobic microbial growth is different from 
fermentation.  Maybe
this confusion can be avoided by not  using the word fermentation, but
referring to aerobic, facultative, or  anaerobic growth, as more
specific terms? >W

PC says : It is interesting: here in france everybody who is
seriously working on ACT and vegetal brews (comfrey, nettle…) seems
to have adopted the term "fermentation". It is good to know that = it
is different in English, it will avoid confusion. AEROBIC/ANAEROBIC
GROWTH suit me fine.
----------------------

EI said <Compost made from 100% horse manure is likely to become
anaerobic
during  the composting process.  Not always, but often, given the=
conditions of  production of the manure. Aerobic compost needs to be <= BR> properly aerated, and then tested, at least the first time you use
it, to make sure the aerobic biology desired is present. Are
bacteria, fungi, protozoa and at least a few nematodes present?  If not, the compost is likely not actually  aerobic.  And compost is= by
definition, an aerobic process. If compost tea is made from
something that doesn't have a full foodweb (i.e., bacteria,
filamentous fungi, protozoa, and nematodes), then can the tea 
produced actually be compost tea?>

PC says :we don't produce our vermicompost ourselves. We don t have
the knowledge to do so. We did a lot of research before finding the
vermicompost that we are using. It is produced by a professional who
is as passionate about worms as can be. For having driven many miles
to check it myself I am confident that the process used is
compatible with what we want to do (ie aerobic conditions…) however
I will talk to my supplier and ask questions. This being said if
compost was a reproducible manufactured product, making ACT would be
a lot easier. The real key to ACT is not technical (there seem to be
good machines on the market) it is the compost: nobody can guaranty
that the compost they use is always the same. 2 composts piles are
always different, no matter how hard we try. My feeling is that ACT
can not be a precise science. We can test to get an idea but unless
we test the compost and the ACT for every batch we can't have a
complete scientific approach. Some people who often post on this
list have a very scientific approach which is great because I
couldn't do it myself! But again I don t think that this is the key
to making good ACT…but this is a tired old subject of controversy.
------------------------------------

EI said <I'm NOT speaking of not-aerated tea, or anaerobic tea, or
manure
tea, or  plant tea.  These are different from aerated compost tea= ,
the
biology  in them is different, and the benefits I talk about that
can be obtained from a  healthy soil foodweb should not be expected. <= BR> Can there be some beneficial results from anaerobic tea?  Sure, but&nb= sp;
precise production conditions have to be defined, and documented in
order to  know, time after time, what exactly will happened when
they are used. Anaerobic tea is not what we mean when we speak of
aerated compost tea.   You cannot achieve a eneficial foodweb by =
using  anaerobic tea.  Putrefying organic matter is not the same =
thing as compost, or as  tea-quality compost.  I like Jeff's
suggestion of using a qualifier to make  sure people understand we aren't talking about stinky, smelly stuff, or only ok  compost, when <= BR> we are taking about compost tea.>

PC says : I am not talking about anaerobic tea either. Anaerobic tea
is a very interesting subject. There is a lot of literature
available on the subject especially for people who speak german. But
I wouldn't talk about it here since this forum is on ACT. But I
think that there are different things in the above paragraph: there
is the subjects of anaerobic tea and the subject of anaerobic
compost. In the end it doesn't matter since the only thing we talk
about here is ACT made from aerobic compost. That was actually the
origin of my question about smell. Smell seems to be an indication
of anaerobic fermentation (I assume this is well documented) and I
am interested in the origin of the smell that we have in all our
batches at a specific time. That is what is puzzling me: why do I
have a smell at T+24 and no smell (ie a good smell) at T+48. the
other question is : if I have no smell at T+48 could that mean that
the tea, after having gone through a slightly anaerobic phase went
back to an aerobic phase? If that was the case would that be good or
bad for the final product and for the plants?…I know I can get
the "lab answer", I will ask for it in time but at this point wha= t I
want is the "intellectual answer" from the people who know the subject.
Thank you





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Received on Fri Mar 11 2005 - 07:30:31 EST

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