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Returned mail: Re: Vietnam War Anniversary



Chris and Howard,
Thanks for setting the record straight.  The early years of U.S. involvement are being ignored in the commemoration of the end of that involvement, even in such eminent publications as the Boston Globe.  Failure to understand our support of the continued division of Vietnam and our refusal to support elections in 1956 leads to a warped view of our whole role there.

Marvin
(These are my own opinions and not  those of the agency.)  

>>> Christopher Beam <cbeam@ABACUS.BATES.EDU> 05/02/00 08:48AM >>>
> 5/2/00
>
> Howard --
>
> Well said.  If you were in the course I teach on the U.S. in Vietnam,
> you'd get an A.
>
> Unfortunately, before I learned about the early history of U.S.-Vietnamese
> (specifically Viet Minh) relations and the missed opportunities you
> referred to, I enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps in 1967.  The reason was
> that I, like most Americans then, bought into the whole misguided doctrine
> of containment and the domino theory.  While in training and later in
> Vietnam (1968-1969), I learned more about the record of U.S. involvement
> there and by the time I got home, felt the U.S. had made a terrible
> mistake and should get out.
>
> As for the "Stalinist" (Viet Cong and North Vietnamese) and Maoist (Khmer
> Rouge) regimes Mr. Scott alludes to, it should be pointed out that while
> the VC/NVA were allied in the early 1970s, the U.S. government must bear
> much of the blame for the tragedies that unfolded, particularly in
> Cambodia.  To wit,
>
> 1.  Nixon's "secret" 1969 bombing of eastern Cambodia subverted that
> country's delicate neutrality, creating unstable conditions in parts of
> the country that made the locals ripe for Khmer Rouge recruitment.  Not
> only that, but the bombing and the 1970 "incursion" simply drove the
> VC/NVA further into that country, causing greater political turmoil.
> While it is true that the Khmer Rouge is primarily responsible for what
> happened in Cambodia from 1975 to 1979, U.S. leaders at the time
> nonetheless have blood on their hands.
>
> 2.  It was the "Stalinists" of Vietnam, not the Americans, who overthrew
> the murderous Khmer Rouge regime, in 1979.
>
> 3.  An horrific but little noticed fact is that the U.S. continued to
> recognize the Khmer Rouge movement as the legitimate government.
> And since 1979 the U.S. funneled indirect support to its guerilla campaign
> against the new government in Phnom Penh.  True, the Vienamese-installed
> rulers were former KRs and beholden to the Vietnamese, but at least the KR
> "communes" (read concentration camps) were dismantled and the wholesale
> massacres were stopped.
>
> It so happens that I am processing some records concerning visits that
> former U.S. Sec. of State Edmund S. Muskie made to Cambodia and Vietnam in
> 1989 and 1993.  A good part of the material deals with the U.S
> government's insistence on providing indirect support to the Khmer Rouge.
> It makes interesting, if sickening, reading.
>
> Just one quibble with your statement: Bao Dai, scion of the discredited
> royal family and Japanese and French collaborator, was placed in charge of
> a rump State of Vietnam in 1949 by French colonial authorities under
> pressure by the Americans to find a way to thwart increasingly powerful
> Viet Minh.  While it was true the U.S. went along with his appointment, in
> 1955 the Americans endorsed his ouster by Diem because they realized he
> had no credibility.
>
> Diem turned out to be a disaster for the U.S. but I would hardly call him
> a buffoon.  He was worse: starting in 1954 he quickly established a
> dictatorship in the southern part of Vietnam, refused to broaden his
> government beyond an inner circle of family members and lackeys, embarked
> on a draconic campaign of repression that targeted not only southern Viet
> Minh (i.e., those who fought against the French) but anyone else who
> opposed his regime, and built his government upon a narrow base of
> northern Catholics (in a country that is 80 percent Buddhist), wealthy
> landowners and former French collaborators.  A ludicrous aspect of this
> phase of the growing U.S. involvement in Vietnam was that Diem refused to
> follow American advice to reform his government and thereby undercut the
> burgeoning Viet Cong rebellion, lest he be seen as an American puppet!
>
> Enough said for the time being.  Frankly, 25 year ago at this time, I was
> relieved the war was over.  The whole U.S. campaign in Vietnam was marked
> by deceit and self-delusion.  Scores of thousands of Americans and
> hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese paid for our leaders' cowardice with
> their lives.  Perhaps to impart some meaning to his squandering of blood
> and treasure would be to study the history of this tragedy.
>
>
> Christopher M. Beam
> (USMC, 1967-1970; Vietnam, 1968-1969)
> Director, The Edmund S. Muskie Archives
> Lecturer, Department of History
> Bates College, 70 Campus Avenue
> Lewiston, ME 04240-6018
> (207) 786-6354, FAX (207) 786-6035
> E-mail: cbeam@bates.edu 
> html://www.bates.edu/muskie_archives 
>
>
>
>
>
> > Had the United States allowed elections to be held in Vietnam after the
> > defeat of the French in 1954 as called for in the Geneva accords, the war
> > would never have taken place.  But instead, American diplomats, lead by John
> > Foster Dulles,  scuttled the elections (which Ho Chi Minh would have easily
> > won, by every account) and then maneuvered to install a series of corrupt
> > buffoons (Bao Dai, Diem, and various generals and political strongmen) in
> > the newly created state of South Vietnam to do our bidding.   Therefore, the
> > resulting carnage was a direct result of American Cold War political
> > strategizing. And please site your source for the claim that more Vietnamese
> > died after the fall of Saigon in 1975 than had died during the war.  I've
> > seen that figure tossed around for years, and no one has ever provided me
> > with a source for that claim.
> >
> > Here is an interesting fact-at  the end of WWII, during a ceremony in Hanoi,
> > Ho Chi Minh declared Vietnam to be a Republic.  In attendance were various
> > American dignitaries, and American aircraft flew overhead.  Ho also quoted
> > from the Declaration of Independence during his speech.  Talk about missed
> > opportunities.
> >
> > Howard
> >
> >
> > > While that "crazy Asian war" may have ended with the fall of Saigon, the
> > > killing did not.
> > >
> > > The Stalinist and Maoist of North Vietnam and Cambodia killed more people
> > > consolidating their victory than died during the war.
> > >
> > > Not everyone on this lists thinks that this is something that we should be
> > > celebrating.
> > > Paul R. Scott
> > > Records Manager (and former Capt. USMCR)
> > > Harris County, Texas
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Patrick J. Prior
> > > >
> > > > I am sending this response to the list instead of just to you only
> > because
> > > > you did.
> > > >
> > > > No, he was a major figure in the anti-war movement here in Madison and I
> > > > was just sharing the story about a good friend of mine -- mostly with
> > > > Midwest Archives Conference members for whom I don't have a separate
> > > > list.  He was never in the military to the best of my knowledge, just
> > > > celebrating an end to "that crazy Asian War" as the popular song had
> > it --
> > > > and as a lot of us did 25 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Frank.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 12:27 PM 5/1/00 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > >Frank,
> > > > >
> > > > >I am having a hard time understanding this post.  Was Quinn somehow
> > > > >involved in the final mad rush from Saigon in 1975?  Or was he an
> > > > anti-war
> > > > >protester?  Or both?  And what was he celebrating?
> > > > >
> > > > >Yours in Haste,
> > > > >Patrick J. Prior
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On the 25th anniversary of the end of the war -- and also May Day -- it
> > > > is
> > > > >fitting to remember the contributions of one of our own to that effort.
> > > > >
> > > > >Patrick M. Quinn, formerly of this shop and now archivist of
> > Northwestern
> > > > >University, was interviewed by the Madison evening newspaper, The
> > Capital
> > > > >Times, on Saturday, April 29th for their article on "The Fall of
> > > > >Saigon."  The front page article concluded with:
> > > > >
> > > > >         "Patrick Quinn had been gone from Madison for a year, but the
> > > > > calls from
> > > > >UW friends from around the country flooded in as images of a helicopter
> > > > >pulling away from the US. Embassy in Saigon flashed on the TV screen.
> > > > >         Quinn, a key organizer in Madison's anti-war movement and the
> > > > > assistant
> > > > >archivist at the State Historical Society, moved on to Northwestern
> > > > >University in 1974 [Patrick worked at the SHSW before coming to the
> > > > >University Archives], where he became the head archivist.  He said he
> > > > >'banged back that Old Style' beer in a private celebration with his
> > > > family,
> > > > >but said there weren't any public celebrations to join down there.
> > > > >         The war, he noted, had been fading for years, but there had
> > been
> > > > > no real
> > > > >conclusion until that moment."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <rschmidt@lib.muohio.edu>
> >
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> >
> > Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <rschmidt@lib.muohio.edu>
> >
>
>
> --IAA04468.957271643/abacus.bates.edu--
>

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