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Re: The Patriot



My unfavorite inaccuracy is at the end of "The Untouchables", where Ness is
at the scene of the death of Frank Nitti. Nitty not only didn't die; he took
over Capone's "business enterprises."
 Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Bunker, Kevin [mailto:kbunker@SS.CA.GOV]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 3:48 PM
To: ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: The Patriot


> ----------
> From:         John Warren[SMTP:jwarren@HENNINGER.COM]
> Reply To:     Archives & Archivists
> Sent:         Friday, June 30, 2000 11:03 AM
> To:   ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject:      Re: The Patriot
>
> "I do wish the writers had sent one of their flunkies to the library to
> check the date, but I guess that was too much like doing real research."
>
>
> Finally (I hope), how many similar complaints can be made against authors
> of
> historical non-fiction?  Do they get the story's nuances exactly right? I
> know every book of history I've ever read has always been dead on (he says
> with a grin) but what are other people's experiences?
>
I had the interesting pleasure of doing some digging (on-the-side) recently
for a publisher doing some furthering/debunking of the Wyatt Earp legends.
Seems Wyatt -- in the early 1890s -- was working as a teamster in
southwestern (and very remote) Nevada. A legend has it that one of his
brothers was gunned down by some asassin who then fled south of the border.

The "old saw" goes on to say that Earp left his work on the "QT" and boarded
a train for Mexico to kill the asassin and do some avenging. I was asked
whether Earp could have made the complete round trip in 14 days or less and
still be back in Nevada to sign for his paycheck at the end of the month.

Through diligent checking and cross referencing of public and employee-issue
railroad timetables, I concluded that Earp could not have managed the trip
within the timeframe specified.  He also would have required the very power
of Providence (and deep pockets) to manipulate railroad and stagecoach
schedules, acquire adequate livery services, food and water, especially
after passing Yuma, A.T. Roadside rests and Motel 6s there were not!

Now all that remains to be seen is what this publisher will do with my
"authoritative" summaries.

Kevin V. Bunker
Student Assistant
California State Archives

> Considering that film is entertainment and not history, I think it does a
> more than fair job of improving our awareness of the history that
> surrounds
> us.  I dare say, that Hollywood and the History Channel have done more to
> introduce the public to the field of history than perhaps any other
> institutions excluding public schools.   As someone who has devoted my
> public life to passing history on (and off!) to the public, I'm proud of
> what the "industry" does in that regard - even if I do sometimes find
> myself
> wincing at inaccuracies.
>
> Hoping not to get called any more names today, I am,
>
> John Warren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Archives & Archivists [mailto:ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU]On Behalf
> Of Jim Cross
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 12:32 PM
> To: ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject: Re: The Patriot
>
> I understand that it is sometimes necessary to rearrange events and invent
> dialogue for conversations that happened (or are likely to have happened)
> for which no verbatim historical record exists. And I can forgive *slight*
> inaccuracies in historical details when it is done to enhance the
> cinematography (a maroon village on a river) or make it clear to the
> audience what is going on (Tarleton's Legion wearing red coats instead of
> green). Having said all that, I wish that Hollywood would just go ahead
> and
> do fiction, rather than say the movie is "based on" a historical personage
> or "on actual events." Here is a comparison of "Benjamin Martin" and the
> real "Swamp Fox," Francis Marion:
>
> Martin: widower with seven children; has a son named Gabriel; has black
> freedmen working on his farm; fought in the French and Indian War; is a
> reluctant patriot, joining the cause in 1776; fights as a guerrilla;
> involved in a "fictionalized" Battle of Cowpens.
>
> Marion: does not marry until after the Revolution (when in his 50's), and
> he and his wife have no children; has a nephew named Gabriel; is a
> slaveowner and rice planter; fought in the French and Indian War (Cherokee
> Wars of 1759 and 1761); is a member of the Provincial Congress in 1775,
> enlists in the Second South Carolina Regiment the same year and serves
> successively as a Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel and Colonel (while getting a
> reputation as a severe disciplinarian)--no reluctant patriot he!; fights
> in
> the Battles of Charleston (Fort Moultrie, 1776) and Savannah (1779) as a
> Continental officer, becomes a guerrilla leader and a brigadier general in
> the SC militia after the Battle of Camden (1780), commands NC and SC
> militia at the Battle of Eutaw Springs (1781) and is therefore well-versed
> in both regular and irregular warfare; finally, he is *not* at the Battle
> of Cowpens (which is fought in the Upstate region of SC, not the Pee Dee
> region where Marion is based).
>
> As you can see, they have "fictionalized" Marion out of all recognition!
> And unfortunately, too many people believe the history that is shown to
> them on the movie or TV screen is the "real story" and do not do any
> further reading/research.
>
> By the way, other characters in the movie "based on" historic personages
> include Colonel Burwell ("Lighthorse Harry" Lee, who did work with Marion)
> and the villain of the piece, William Tavington, who is based on Banastre
> Tarleton (he had more than his fair share of flaws and gained a reputation
> for brutality among the Rebels, but he was not the devil incarnate, as
> portrayed in the movie; also, his ultimate historical fate is different
> than that in the movie).
>
> Of course, the thing that got me was reading the _Smithsonian_ article and
> finding out that an early version of the script had snow falling at the
> Battle of Monmouth. One problem--the battle was fought on a sweltering day
> in June! (Remember Molly Pitcher?) Oh, well, I guess they thought that
> since the battle took place up North, it had to be snowing! I do wish the
> writers had sent one of their flunkies to the library to check the date,
> but I guess that was too much like doing real research.  :-)
>
> As for working with the media, I have worked with both print and TV folks.
> Some are nice, some are pains in the posterior. Sometimes they can be as
> demanding as untrained genealogists who want *everything* you have on
> their
> family and are surprised when you do not have it. In my experience, both
> print and TV tend more towards photos, with TV more so (natch, since it is
> a visual medium). Both groups seem to be always working on a deadline and
> needing the stuff NOW, even if the project has been underway for months.
> It
> is always "interesting" to work with them.
>
> My rant for the day. (Could I get a job on Monday Night Football?)
>
> Jim Cross
> Special Collections
> Clemson University Libraries
> Clemson, SC
>
>
> P.S. South Carolina has more Revolutionary War battle sites than any other
> state in the U.S.
>
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Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <rschmidt@lib.muohio.edu>