Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

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Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby John Brainard » February 25th, 2013, 9:49 pm

In a recent discussion at CARM I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)

Is this an accurate statement?

John
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby Alan Patterson » February 26th, 2013, 8:27 am

Hi John,

HTAN seems grammatically out of place. en is correct grammatically.

I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)



QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS would be translated:
The word (they) were God.
HTAN is 3rd Person Plural, if my modern Greek is correct (and I am very poor on modern Greek).

Kai Theos en o logos
And the word was [a] god/God.
This is grammatically correct since en is 3rd Person Singular.

I have a feeling this answer may not be overly satisfying for what you are looking for. Are you sure that is the modern Greek sentence? If so, a modern Greek B-Greeker will have to step in and clarify this.

To sum, en and HTAN are not equivalent.
χαρις υμιν και ειρηνη,
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby John Brainard » February 26th, 2013, 9:55 am

Alan Patterson wrote:Hi John,

HTAN seems grammatically out of place. en is correct grammatically.

I was told that QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS (Modern Greek) John 1:1 is identical to Kai Theos en o logos (koine)



QEOS HTAN hO LOGOS would be translated:
The word (they) were God.
HTAN is 3rd Person Plural, if my modern Greek is correct (and I am very poor on modern Greek).

Kai Theos en o logos
And the word was [a] god/God.
This is grammatically correct since en is 3rd Person Singular.

I have a feeling this answer may not be overly satisfying for what you are looking for. Are you sure that is the modern Greek sentence? If so, a modern Greek B-Greeker will have to step in and clarify this.

To sum, en and HTAN are not equivalent.


I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.

Thank you for you input

John
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby David Lim » February 27th, 2013, 6:09 am

John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.

I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby Barry Hofstetter » February 27th, 2013, 7:29 am

David Lim wrote:
John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.

I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1


And this has ητο, 3rd person singular, as do both print modern Greek Bibles that I have, one Katharevousa, the other Demotike. Whatever the source, it does not appear to be accurate.
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby Shirley Rollinson » February 27th, 2013, 6:50 pm

A point to remember is that the New World Translation is produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses (there may be an agenda there)
Also the Nominative definite article with a copula in Greek normally indicates the subject.
So ὁ λογος should be translated as the subject, and θεος as predicate nominative
"The word was God"
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby John Brainard » February 27th, 2013, 11:10 pm

I want to thank all of you for your answers. I know this is out of the ordinary and I do not have any modern Greek Grammars.

John
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby George F Somsel » February 28th, 2013, 2:09 pm

There is a modern Greek bible at Christian Classics Etherial Library (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/gkmod.John.1.html)

1Εν αρχη ητο ο Λογος, και ο Λογος ητο παρα τω Θεω, και Θεος ητο ο Λογος.
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby Scott Lawson » February 28th, 2013, 4:10 pm

I note that ήταν serves in Demotic for both the 3rd person singular and for 3rd person plural imperfect.
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Re: Modern Greek verses Koine Greek John 1:1

Postby Scott Lawson » February 28th, 2013, 4:47 pm

David Lim wrote:
John Brainard wrote:I have very little understanding of Modern Greek. This is why I posted it here. The Modern Text is a cut and paste from the New World Translation.

I thought the NWT is in English? Anyway you can read a modern Greek translation at The Unbound Bible. Here is John 1


David,

The NWT is currently printed in 123 languages with more to follow. This is an unconfirmed number which I took note of at a discourse a couple of weeks ago. Wikipedia reports 116 as the official number.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+man ... #itp=open0
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