[B-Greek] Perseus Synonyms? (EKKLHSIA and SULLOGOS?)

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Thu Jun 12 15:23:05 EDT 2008


Dear Sarah,

You are correct; but Psalm 22:22 has EKKLHSIA translating QAHAL in LXX which is why the author of Hebrews is using it.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sarah Madden 
  To: Bryant J. Williams III 
  Cc: newsgroupstuff ; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
  Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Perseus Synonyms? (EKKLHSIA and SULLOGOS?)


  There is one more exception: EKKLHSIA cannot be translated as "church" in Hebrews 2:12 where it quotes Psalm 22:22:

  LEGWN APAGGELW TO ONOMA SOU TOIS ADELFOIS MOU, IN MESW EKKLHSIAS hUMNHSW SE 
  "saying, 'I will proclaim Thy name to My brothers, in the midst of the assembly I will sing Thy praises.' "
  :-)
  Sarah Madden
  sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
  Maryland, USA

   
  On 6/12/08, Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw at com-pair.net> wrote: 
    Dear Craig,

    I would suggest you see the following article in NIDNTT, Vol. 1, pp. 291-307,
    Church, Synagogue, EKKLHSIA, by L. Coenen. This is especially true of the use of
    EKKLHSIA and SUNAGWGH and their translations of QAHAL and )EDAH in the LXX. It
    is interesting that the Hebrew )EDAH is never translated by EKKLHSIA, but by
    SUNAGWGH. EKKLHSIA and SUNAGWGH translate QAHAL.

    In the NT, with the exception of James 2:2 (SUNAGWGH), EKKLHSIA is always used
    of the meetings and community gatherings of the followers of Jesus. This is
    especially significant since the early followers were Jews. EKKLHSIA is also
    used of the riotous crowd assembled in Ephesus (Acts 19:39-40). With the
    exception of Mt 16:18; 18:17, it is never used in the Gospels.

    En Xristwi,

    Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "newsgroupstuff" <newsgroupstuff at gmail.com>
    To: "'newsgroupstuff'" <newsgroupstuff at gmail.com>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
    Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:36 AM
    Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Perseus Synonyms? (EKKLHSIA and SULLOGOS?)


    > Further to my post below, perhaps I should explain a little of the background
    to my question. I am looking at the use of EKKLHSIA in the NT. It was suggested
    to me that if the Christians just wanted to use a Greek term to mean "meeting"
    or "assembly", then they could have used SULLOGOS instead. But they never did
    (at least in the NT), suggesting that EKKLHSIA becomes more of technical than a
    generic term, or else that it is distinctly better for describing the Christian
    meeting than SULLOGOS would be.
    >
    > In the Perseus it notes that EKKLHSIA regularly appears with SULLOGOS. I'm
    guessing for the same reason the LSJ entries suggest that EKKLHSIA is more
    specific than SULLOGOS, based on Th.2.22, Pl.Grg.456b, etc, and so that SULLOGOS
    would perhaps not be used to describe the official EKKLHSIA. But if you were the
    first Christians, and wanted to pick a word to describe the new Christian
    gatherings, could SULLOGOS have been used as readily as EKKLHSIA?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > --
    > Craig Johnson
    > Brisbane, Australia
    > Blog: http://bloggledegook.blogspot.com/
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: newsgroupstuff [mailto:newsgroupstuff at gmail.com]
    > > Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 7:49 PM
    > > To: 'b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org'
    > > Subject: Perseus Synonyms? (EKKLHSIA and SULLOGOS?)
    > >
    > >
    > > Hi.
    > >
    > > I'm just wondering if someone can help explain something I
    > > came across.
    > >
    > > I wanted to compare two words: EKKLHSIA and SULLOGOS. I
    > > expected them to be synonyms, but if I look up either on
    > > Perseus, neither comes up for the other as a synonym. Is
    > > there something very different about the meanings of these
    > > two words? Does anyone know how the computer of Perseus
    > > determines synonyms, and why these don't come up as synonymns?
    > >
    > > Here are the LSJ definitions from Perseus, and from this
    > > there seems some overlap in the terms:
    > >
    > > ἐκκλησί-α, ἡ, (ἔκκλητος) assembly duly summoned, less general
    > > than σύλλογος, Th.2.22, Pl.Grg.456b, etc. ; applied to the
    > > Homeric Assemblies, Arist.Pol.1285a11 ; to the Samian
    > > Assembly, Hdt.3.142 ; to the Spartan, Th.1.87 ; to the
    > > meeting of the Amphictyons at Delphi, Aeschin.3.124 ; at
    > > Athens, ἐ. κύριαι, opp. σύγκλητοι, Arist.Ath.43.4 ; κυρία ἐ.,
    > > at Amorgos, IG12(7).237.46 ; ἐ. συναγείρειν, συνάγειν,
    > > συλλέγειν, ἀθροίζειν, call an assembly, Hdt.3.142, Th.2.60,
    > > 8.97, X.HG1.6.8 ; ἐ. ποιεῖν Ar.Eq.746, Th.1.139,al. ; ἐ.
    > > ποιεῖν τινί Ar.Ach.169 ; διδόναι τινί Plb.4.34.6 ; ἐ.
    > > γίγνεται an assembly is held, Th.6.8 ; καταστάσης ἐ. Id.1.31
    > > ; ἦν ἐ. τοῖς στρατηγοῖς And.1.2 ; ἐ. διαλύειν, ἀναστῆσαι,
    > > dissolve it, Th.8.69 (Pass.),X.HG2.4.42 ; ἀφιέναι Plu.TG16 ;
    > > ἐ. ἀνεβλήθη was adjourned, Th.5.45 ; ἐ. περί τινος Ar. Av.1030, etc.
    > >
    > > σύλλογ-ος, ὁ, assembly, concourse, meeting of persons,
    > > whether legal or riotous, ς. ἐγίνετο Hdt.8.74; Ἀχαιῶν ς.,
    > > name of a play by Sophocles; ξ. γυναικοπληθεῖς E.Alc.951; ς.
    > > στρατεύματος Id.IA514, cf. 825; ἐν θεοῖς ς. σοῦ πέρι ἔσται
    > > Id.Hel.878; ς. ποιῆσαι Th.1.67, 4.114 (cf. ἐκκλησία); ς.
    > > ποιέεσθαι Hdt.7.8 init., 8.24, cf. E.Heracl.335; ς. διαλύειν
    > > Hdt.7.10.δ'; of the people, διαλύεσθαι ἐκ τοῦ ς. Id.3.73; ς.
    > > σχολαστικοί Arist.Pol.1313b3; συμπόσια καὶ ἄλλοι ς. Phld.Mus.
    > > p.110K.; ὁ ς. ὁ Ἁλικαρνασσέων SIG45.1 (Halic., v B.C.), cf.
    > > 278.3 (Priene, iv B.C.), al.; at Athens, of any special
    > > public meeting or assembly, opp. the common ἐκκλησία,
    > > Th.2.22, Pl.Lg.764a; ἐκκλησίᾳ καὶ ἄλλῳ ς. παντί, ὅστις ἂν
    > > πολιτικὸς ς. γένηται Id.Grg.452e, cf. X.An.5.7.2, D.19.122;
    > > freq. of a muster of forces, X.Cyr.6.2.11, al.; so ς. νεῶν
    > > And.3.38; ς. θεραπηΐης a medical consultation, Hp. Praec.13.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > --
    > > Craig Johnson
    > > Brisbane, Australia
    > > Blog: http://bloggledegook.blogspot.com/
    > >
    > ---
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    >


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  -- 
  Sarah
  sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
  work: 301.429.8189 


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