[B-Greek] Romans 8:16: SUMMARTUREI TWi PNEUMATI

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Jun 14 11:24:02 EDT 2008


καλῶς γε σύ, ὦ Ἱππία, ὀνομάζων τε καὶ διανοούμενος, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖς. ** συμμαρτυρῆσαι δέ σοι ἔχω ὅτι ἀληθῆ λέγεις **, καὶ τῷ ὄντι ὑμῶν ἐπιδέδωκεν ἡ τέχνη πρὸς τὸ καὶ τὰ δημόσια πράττειν δύνασθαι μετὰ τῶν ἰδίων. Γοργίας τε γὰρ οὗτος ὁ Λεοντῖνος σοφιστὴς δεῦρο ἀφίκετο δημοσίᾳ οἴκοθεν πρεσβεύων, ὡς ἱκανώτατος ὢν Λεοντίνων τὰ κοινὰ πράττειν, καὶ ἔν τε τῷ δήμῳ ἔδοξεν ἄριστα εἰπεῖν, καὶ ἰδίᾳ ἐπιδείξεις ποιούμενος καὶ συνὼν τοῖς νέοις χρήματα πολλὰ ἠργάσατο
Plato, Hippias Major, 282b (http://tinyurl.com/4rqqgh)
KALWS GE SU, W hIPPIA, ONOMAZWN TE KAI DIANOOUMENOS, hWS EMOI DOKEIS.  SUMMARTURHSAI DE SOI EXW hOTI ALHQH LEGEIS, KAI TWi ONTI hUMWN EPIDEDWKEN hH TEXNH PROS TO KAI TA DHMOSIA PRATTEIN DUNASQAI META TWN IDIWN. GORGIAS TE GAR hOUTOS hO LEONTINOS SOFISTHS DEURO AFIKETO DHMOSIAi OIKOQEN PRESBEUWN, hWS hIKANWTATOS WN LEONTINWN TA KOINA PRATTEIN, KAI EN TE TWi DHMWi EDOCEN ARISTA EIPEIN, KAI IDIAi EPIDEICEIS POIOUMENOS KAI SUNWN TOIS NEOIS CRHMATA POLLA HRGASATO
** and I am able to bear witness with you that you speak the truth **
 george
gfsomsel


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: John Sanders <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>
To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 9:41:54 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Romans 8:16: SUMMARTUREI TWi PNEUMATI

I appreciate Elizabeth's comments about SUMMARTUREI TWi PNEUMATI.  I also
went to A. T. Robertson's Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of
Historical Research (available through the internet) and also A
Beginning-Intermediate Grammar of Hellenistic Greek by Robert W. Funk (also
available through the internet).



I have reached a different conclusion, though.  Let me explain my views.



The DOTIKH case can be considered as having three subgroups, the dative,
instrumental, and the locative.  But the sense of the meaning is not
arbitrary or capricious; the listener would understand which sense was meant
in normal dialogue.  Robertson mentions, not as a rule in absolute, but as
a general trend, that DOTIKH when used in case only usually referred to the
Dative.  I scanned the various uses of PNEUMATI in the GNT (I only have a
low budget program, ISA (although a interlinear, I use it to give me simple
lists of word usage, etc.).  It appears to me that TWi PNEUMATI used in case
only is dative, and when it is used with the preposition EN is usually
associative (which I would think is part of the instrumental, but perhaps it
is locative).



The predicate as a whole may modify this.  Unfortunately, there are only
three examples of the use of SUMMARTUREW in the GNT, and only two of those
using DOTIKH (and both of those in Romans with similar sense).  As a dative,
it makes sense to me and this is normative usage of PNEUMATI.



I would change my mind quickly and easily if Elizabeth or someone could
indicate with examples from the literature where SUMMARTUREW with DOTIKH
case only indicates associativeness.



A comment on Wallace's use of categories of Greek.  I was puzzled by Dr.
Wallace's use of long list of categories of Greek syntax (Dative of such and
such, Genitive of such and such, etc.).  I personally did not find them
useful nor constructive in learning Greek at all.  I followed Dr. Conrad's
advice and purchased the NET diglot.  I am happy I did, although I disagree
often on specific translations used.  I will read a paragraph of Greek, then
read the English, following the notes.  It was doing this that 'it dawned on
me that Dr. Wallace's categories have little to do with the Greek, but much
to do with the English.


-- 
John Sanders
Suzhou, China
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