RE: [compost_tea] Re: Soak in a Bucket CT NO NO NO

From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:17:57 -0700 (PDT)

Mike and Kirk and others who responded or did not respond. I guess I am being to subtle. Tried to make it really strong. I'll try again.

The chemical products have been chemically developed with experts at the beaker making sure that the stuff they sell will not make headlines. Poison enough to discourage insects and some few diseases that they affect are geared to have so little effect on people that there is no point in time when pesticides are clearly the cause of any malady. Some people suspect many of our ills are the result of chemicals but which one and when in a lifetime? Well established, lots of profit, big retail chain, strong infulence in government. Not much chance of an incident that could affect the market. Maybe pull a poison once in a while.

Compost tea - unknown source of ingredients, tiny group of proponents with such thin pockets they can't / don't afford to do it right They don't know right from maybe. Don't understand the processes they depend on. " Wash the vegetables? The leaf lettuce? What does it take to remove the bacteria that has formed on leaves? Wash the strawberies? The raspberries?

A surgeon, to get his hands free of hazardous microbes scrubs for XX minutes with soap and warm water. The produce wash is effective to remove sand., silt No more.

The chemical people leave some residue on food. The effect on the diner is not likely to be felt or recorded. Not unless he eats it repeatedly over some years. If a health failure turns up no clue as to its cause or source.

The CT people applying beneficial microbes may plant microbes that will affect the diner positively. The cause and effect will be little noted nor long remembered. Little if any positive PR.

However if that CT includes a life threatening pathogen the result is quick, devastating and traceable. Publicity is world wide. Everyone on this list is familiar with this senario. Strawberries from California were marketed with traced E-Coli. For a time you couldn't give the berries away. They became compost.

If Ford Motors had one car part that made his cars hazarous he would lose heavily and the maker would be affected to near bankruptcy. remember Firestone Tire? Two well established giant corporations lost more than all the CT users pool of wealth over that highly questionable hazard. Ford took positive action with lots of PR to get past that.

Envision this: E-coli was traced to lettuce. The gardener had watered it with CT a day or so before harvest. It would make world news. The gardener, the owner, the church, and everyone depending on CT would be affected. Not gently.

The science was not there as manure anaerobic tea developed. Pathogens happened and nobody could trace to the source. NOW we have the science to know the hazard, to know how to trace the hazard, to know how to avoid the hazard. In court the most expensive conviction may be for negligence.

If as a group we allow negligence among us we may not be in court but we will all pay for that negligence. Somewhere in the objectives of the list is to pursue the science. We have. Science proves aerobic CT safe. .

Science says Anaerobic in many forms from many base materials proves to frequently produce an unsafe "tea".

It is urgent that a look alike. named alike version of our product be eliminated.

 

 

 

.

 

  

 

 


Mike Bosko <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com> wrote:


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I’m not sure why I’m getting included in these messages as being a proponent, or even an opponent, of either of these. I use the bucket method because its what I have, and can afford at the time. I don’t add ‘food’ to it, so am basically using as another way of spreading my tea. I spray it into my personal garden (which only I and my family eat), and onto my hay fields (which is sold to the public and promoted as not having used chem. Fertilizers). I clean my veggies before eating them, as anyone would do who buys from the chem growers anyway – why should this be different than with CT? No one sues the chem. mfgs for their spraying the veggies we buy at Safeway… WHOOPS got off track.

 

I see the positive benefits of AACT and the negatives of a tea gone anaerobic. But never have I promoted either as being the way to go; and I don’t expect to do so. I’m on this list to learn how to use it and make it myself, for my own use. I’ll help promote it in any way I can though, because I believe in it (aact). And in helping to get public awareness and then gov approval (ugh), I only strongly suggest getting the public involved and interested in it first, not going about getting approval via commercial means from the start – you get far further using the far more majority of the public (imo). This is why I suggested submitting articles to OG – you will get a great following from those readers.

 

But from making these suggestions I’m labeled as a promoter of non-aact, or anaerobic, teas??? I don’t get it. If, for some reason however, in my past few posts I may have miswrote something to give reason to read me that way … I’ll post here to say – I’m only here to learn. I have input on promoting it only because I believe in it (aact). But I am in no way experienced or knowledgeable enough to give any reasons for the good or bad, for either of the methods. I admit that.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Norsen [mailto:bnbrew_at_yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:24 PM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [compost_tea] Re: Soak in a Bucket CT NO NO NO

 

Mike and Kirk - Your treatment of "Manure in a bucket tea" does not consider the potential danger to the entire Aerobic compost TEA development.

 

Scenario - church pot luck serves a great salad. x members subcome to E-coli. E-Coli takes a kids life and another kids liver. Gardener is suspect cause. E-coli is taced to "Compost TEA" that was used to water the lettuce. Is the press going to clearly explain the exact nature of the compost tea and that it is one kind or another and if they did, would the publice carry the message to the market place and select AIR BREWED COMPOST TEA treated produce to buy ? ( ABCT)

 

Not likely. 10 years of Elaines work is down the tube. My brewers would never get sold. Good Bye friends of this list. We are history

 

After your messages I realize the most important thing we must do is fight like hell to eliminate all use of and association of compost tea from anarobic liquid products Inspite of mixed results for eons it is a hazard that needs to go away. Aeration is not expensive. What is called TEA is on the shelf at reputable nurseries. Sealed in bottles. The high profit product of a giant municiple composting company. Is there any test data to prove it has value, is alive and is safe? Further we need to improve assurance that what is being brewed by all of us and our customers and farmers are truely aerobic.

 

If we allow the easy acceptance of hazargous or ineffective products to be on the market or brewed at home and called by a common name - CT - we risk the entire program. The better health. The conservation of soil and the land. The rivers and lakes. The ecology. The improved farms. The strawberrys, bananas,the oaks and palm trees.

 

When compost tea includes a broad range of liquids some of which can be hazardous then the USDA has no choice but to say treat it like raw manure. .

 

And you guys? I guess they would be hiring at Montasanto. From your resume you could leave out any mention of your work with ABCT. Bob

 

PS I hope I have worded this in a way to start some useful thought. Kirk and Mike, you have devoted much to this list. I respect you. I was reading your messages calmly but thought after.---- Having a common look alike name and really very similar looking liquid, one of which can be hazardous is a problem that could take a big bite from every ass in this program. Government agencies are obligated to eliminate this risk. A broad ban on CT will reduce our already micro freeboard Wonderful as ABCT is, watching Elaine and others in this program, I know this is program is still on a hill, pushing hard, up. Jeff and Wayne have moved Anchorage to the point that it is locally on a level, well accepted CT is being used and paid for at true value. It makes the CT business possible. I think there is a lesson there. Get it right, then In word, PREVAIL Bob

 



Mike Bosko <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com> wrote:


Mike recalls "Rodale's Organic Gardening Magazine...always speaking of the
'soak in the bucket' (anaerobic) method." Are you surprised? He thinks
this is bad. I don't.





Hey Kirk, chill.

 

I dont recall saying anything about it being bad.
 It is anaerobic, is it not? Never said that was bad tho just that it is what is often preached in the magazine. I believe I said something to the matter of suggesting someone write an article regarding AACT; The actively aerated alternative. Adding food to the compost tea, aerating it to help grow even more anaerobic microbes In my opinion it does seem to be the better alternative you get more good stuff, from the same bucket.

 

I read the magazine, and still practice the bucket method, but was excited to hear about growing even more good stuff in the tea using the AACT methods. I truly think that the readers of OG would be very interested in learning about AACT as an alternative to the bucket tea that I had mentioned.

 

Did you happen to read further into my message? I question everything. I try to make a stand for the common guy out here, not wanting to spend a bunch of cash on making teas, wanting it to researched to make it more simple and then, in turn, to get it in use more often. That goes for Compost-anything.

 

-Mike

 

 

 

 



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Received on Sun Jun 29 2003 - 02:14:06 EDT

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