Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT

From: David Loring <dloring3_at_cox.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:12:17 -0700

Dennis - You're right of course, it can't be done with a single test. It w=
ouldn't be fair whatever the outcome. Any rigorous test would have at leas=
t four repetitions of the same experiment. Maybe there are enough machines=
 out there that we would have at least two identical machines for each type=
 manufactured. If there were not really significant differences then that =
might tell the story. I'm open to anything that will actually sort out som=
e of these variables, even those we expect in the lab results. Maybe Elain=
e would tell us what the acceptable limits are for her lab testing in the s=
ense of one sample being run multiple times as a quality control test. I a=
gree that there are limits to what any lab can do. I don't know what to th=
ink at this point, I've never sent paired, blind samples before. I would p=
ay for one of the samples though if someone paid for the other.
Dave
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: dkemnitz2000
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:49 PM
  Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT


  ---Dave, I was trying to point out there are many variables included
  even in the testing, even of objective tests. I run a flour sample
  here (myself) and do all the sample prep one day and do it again the
  next day and get different numbers (vitamins B1 and B2 for instance)
  each day. New variables the next day? Sample changed? Usually the
  numbers are close but what do you do when it comes time for
  disposition esp when numbers are not close? Maybe average, maybe
  rerun sample, maybe get another sample? Maybe re-write the specs.?
  Maybe throw out one for some reason. Anyway experimental design will
  be important in the brewer tests. Dennis



  In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Loring" <dloring3_at_c...> wrote:
> Dennis - I agree with about 95% of what you've said but there is a
  need for testing in my mind, not with someones hard found recipe, but
  with a mutually agreed to compost and food of some kind. Unless we
  can get information about the variability of these machines then
  we're all on our own a bit and progress, much needed, will be
  difficult. It's hard to extrapolate to new situations unless we nail
  down the variables one at a time. I think the strength of this forum
  is found in combining our sometimes expensive experiences. I've
  spent a couple thousand on testing myself without any product except
  that I teach. Those of us in the non-commercial world stand to gain
  the most from sharing. If I can pay for only one report and get the
  answers from 5-10 others I'd consider it money well spent.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dkemnitz2000
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:04 PM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
>
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "tomjasz" <tom_at_l...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, but understandably the developers of the
  nutrient
> > packs have invested thousands of dollars in their "recipes".
  Two
> > developers I have conversations with aren't particularly
  excited
> > about having a competition. They are busy with their farmers,
  fruit
> > growers and viticulturists developing successful operations
  based
> on
> > sustainable practice and using ACT as a part of the program.
  The
> > controlled testing has been going on with several manufacturers
  for
> > several years. The idea of a competition borders on the
  ridiculous
> > from my perspective. What would such a competition achieve?
> > Apparently several tea systems are producing stellar results.
  Some
> > find the need to blather about and have NOT achieved any
  consistent
> > successes.(comment not directed at list!) I continue to suspect
> they
> > bandy about only the best of their tests. Other manufacturers
> > consistently produce high quality tea without competitions or
  this
> > list. Please don't misunderstand that comment...there are over
  300
> > members and about ten posters!!!
> >
> > Thanks for the invitation Tom! I already wrote Brewer Bob and
  this
> list two opinions earlier today which I cancelled for
  consideration
> to all.
> I'd have to say my bottom line is cost perhaps like many of
  you.
> I believe in tests, like Jeff. I am a lab tech in a food testing
  lab
> and don't make enough money to hire tests on tea I'll use on a
  65
> acre farm. In our lab we use standard testing procedures. Some
> samples(duplicates) are sent to other labs to see how we compare
  to
> them. You might be suprised but they don't get the same answer
  we
> get any way. Even labs(and brewers) must deal with accuracy and
> precision.
> So I'll be brewing, testing applying and reporting based on
  what I
> glean from this board and seminars and cd's and ATTRA and
  whatever
> else might work without hiring many experts. I guess this is
  better
> than spraying pesticides herbicides and fertilizers. Dennis
  Kemnitz
>
>
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Received on Fri Aug 29 2003 - 14:33:51 EDT

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