Re: [compost_tea] compost tea and biodynamics

From: Mike Harvey <mharvey_at_westnet.com.au>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:19:09 +0800

Elaine,
You said-
"How benefiical are the fermentative bacteria for plant growth? I am not
aware that anyone has made a study of this. Maybe the EM folks could set me
straight, and send some data for the group to look at?"
I am not EM Folk however I have been researching information on Molasses,
rates benefits etc and came accros a very interesting study showing the
benefits of molasses with EM in rice paddies.This was shown to reduce
salinity in the area studied. http://www.embiotech.org/mechanism.htm
I gave this to a friend of mine who is an ex CSIRO scientist specialising in
Dry land salinity and now an associate Professor, he said it had value and
made sense.
Could these facultative anerobic bacteria (EM) organisms have benefit in say
vineyards that have waterlogging at times??
Regards Mike Harvey

----- Original Message -----
From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] compost tea and biodynamics


> The biodynamic preps CAN be useful for addition to compost teas, as some
of the preps, when fresh, are nicely fungal. Some outstanding fungal
diversity in some of the preps. But once dried, the fungal biomass isn't so
great.
>
> I think (please note that means no solid data) there is some validity in
the imparting of energy to water when a vortex or Malcolm Rae machine (I
rhink that's the right spelling) is used. Measuring the benefit is not that
easy. What exactly do you measure to show benefit? Perhaps 75 to 80% of
the time, we see increased bacterial and/or fungal activity, and resultant
increases in total bacterial and/or fungal biomass.
>
> What about the other 20 to 25% of the time? Decreased activity, or no
change as compared to the control. Lots to yet test here. Why the 20 to
25% no-benefit seen? What other factor exists here that we are not paying
attention to?
>
> Someone suggested moon phase to me when I was in Australia, and so I went
back and looked at the dates. Not related to the phase of the moon, as far
as I can tell. Or maybe biodynamic folks need to teach me more about moon
phases than I am aware of?
>
> Anyway, I think there is something to at least some biodynamic approaches.
We need to discover what those basic repeatable factors are, and weed out
the factors that give variation. When something fails to give a benefit 20%
or more of the time, it's too great a failure rate.
>
> Compost tea production has been very much the same in the past. Too
variable and too inconsistent. Sometimes you'd get good results, sometimes
not. The failure, or the no-benefit rate was too great. But once we
started making actively aerated compost tea, then the results were
consistent and reliable.
>
> OK, you have to make actively aerated compost tea to get consistent
results. If you let the putrefactive microbes take over, and don't return
to aerobic conditions before application, you can be in trouble. Or really,
your plants will be in trouble. The only times I've killed plants is when
I've let brews go anaerobic. Not all brews that appeared to be anaerobic
killed the plants, but too often they do kill plants.
>
> Now, there are some interesting results when you add EM inocula in teas.
Steve Diver talks about this, and I would like to do more work on these
bacteria. They are fermentative bacteria, and when anaerobic conditions
occur, they produce lactic acid, malic acid, and other fermentative
products. You get less production of ammonia, hydrogen sulfide, or the
really smelly organic acids. Or, most of the time you don't. Still more to
be understood here.
>
> How benefiical are the fermentative bacteria for plant growth? I am not
aware that anyone has made a study of this. Maybe the EM folks could set me
straight, and send some data for the group to look at?
>
> In any case, do the biodynmaic preps, the liquid manures (look out for the
human pathogens please!), or the plant extracts benefit microorganisms?
Sure. But the variability in beneficial results is too great.
>
> I don't like to write things off just because some people have messed up
while doing the methods......
>
> So, there's something useful there. It's going to take some work to
figure out exactly what, and how to management it reliably.
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>


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Received on Wed Sep 17 2003 - 21:19:56 EDT

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