Dear Sri Krishna,
VishistAdvaita sampradayam is a parama vaidhika
matham. Sri Ramanuja only propagated the already existing
philosophy. EmperumAnAr was not a founder of Srivaishnavism as you have
mentioned. Swamy before writing Sribhasyam took the reference from
Bodhayana vriththi grandham that was preserved in the sarada peedam. This
bhodhayana vriththi was full and full based on VishistAdvaita principles.
That shows that even before Sri Ramanuja VishistAdvaita philosophy was very well
there. Swamy only propagated it to the world.
Adiyen ramanuja dAsee
Sumithra Varadarajan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:23
AM
Subject: Re: [Oppiliappan] Fw:
[SriRangaSri] RE: Origin of Hebbar iyengars
Swamin:
Before Ramanuja there was only Vishnavism, and the philosophy existed was
only Advita. Sri Ramanuja made advita into Vishista-advita also called as
qualified advita or qualified monoism.He made Vishnavism into Srivishnavisam
by giving a place to SRI also known as Godess Lakshmi. Acharya Ramanuja is the
founder of Srivishnavism Sect. If you study the Life of Sri Ramanuja, you will
find that his Guru taught Ramanuja and his class-mates advita philosophy.Later
came Madhwa Charya and his philosophy was Dwaitha also called as Dualism.
Before Ramanuja the Red Line signifying Lakshmi or Sri in the center of
the Namam did not exist, it was Sri Ramanuja who inserted the Red. It is
very clear that Vishsta-advita philosophy did not exist before Sri Ramanuja. I
welcome more arguments in this subject from learned Scholars. Adijen
Krishna Sri Ramanuja Dasan sgopan <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Sri:
Dear
BhakthAs :
It is my pleasure to share with you Sriman AMR Kannan
Swamy's posting in the Sri Ranga Sri list
.
V.Sadagopan
> Dear Sri Sampige Srinivasa
Swamin, > > Thank you sharing us about the origin of the word
Hebbar. That was very > informative. > > You have also
mentioned that Sri Ramanujacharya was not a SriVaishnava > when he was
born and was born to an advaitin. Could you please refer > some
authentic manuscripts regarding this claim? I don't think Sri >
Ramanuja was born to an Advaitin. > > We first need to
understand the social structure of Sri Ramanuja's days. > In those
days everyone who followed the Vedic (vaidika) religion wore > only an
urdhava pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme >
reality. Some of these vedic (vaidika) people might have followed >
advaita philosophy as well. But the difference between now and then
was > whether you are a advathi or a vishistadvaithi you always wore a
urdhva > pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme reality
unlike the > present scenario. Therefore whatever the difference
between the (present > day) smarthas and (present day) vaishnavas did
not exists in those days. > In fact everyone followed smartha dharmam
(the rituals prescribed in > smrithis) but lived a vaishnavite life.
Therefore even if we say that > Sri Ramanuja was born in a smartha
family, we need to clearly understand > that the present
smartha-vaishnava grouping did not exist in those days. > For example
those smarthas did not wear thri-pundram. They might have > used
thiruman, srichurnam or sandal or gopi or something else to wear an >
urdhva pundram. Another example is those smarthas did not accept
other > deities as supreme reality. > > Adiyen still
remember the words of Sri Velukkudi Varadhacharyar Swami > during one
of his upanyasams in Tiruvallikkeni. Swami said, "Vaidikas > (those
who follow vedic religion) may dispute among themselves whether >
Advaita is the vedic philosophy, or Vishistadvaita is the vedic >
philosophy or Dvaita is the vedic philosophy. But these vaidikas
will > never dispute whether Sriman Narayana is the supreme reality or
some > other deity is the ultimate truth. Because Sriman Narayana's
supremacy > is what vedic philosophy and that is what all vaidikas
including > Advaitis, Vishishtadvaitis and Dvaitis believe." But of
course the > present day situation is different. We should not gauge
those days with > present day's standards. > > Now the
question comes, how do we know for sure? We need to read the > great
works done by those acharyas. For example, Sri Adhi > Shankaracharya's
Brahma Sutra Bhashayam (in particular 2nd chapter > (Avirodhathyayam,
Dharga Padham) will be a good place to start about Sri >
Shankaracharya's position on various religions practiced in his
days. > Similarly, Sri Shankaracharya's Sri Gita Bhashayam and Sri
Vishnu > Sahasranama Bhashayam would be equally good to read in order
to > understand his philosophy. > > But if we want to know
the essence of these writings, there are two > excellent books written
by Puththur Sri Sudharshanam Sri > Krishnamachariyar Swami entitled:
1. Sanga Kala Tamizhar Samayam 2. > Shankararum Vainavamum. These two
books were written with authenticity. > These books are in Tamil. So,
someone needs to translate them for > everyone to read. They are truly
eye-openers for many misconceived > thoughts. > > Adiyen
Ramanujadasan Kannan > > >>===== Original Message From
"Sampige Srinivasa" <sampiges@xxxxxxxxxxx> >
===== >>Dear Sri. Balaji, >> >>Yes Hebbar
Iyengars were not originally Srivaishnavas as you said and >
also >>it is true that even Sri. Ramanujacharya was not a
Srivaishnava when he > was >>born. He was born to an
advaitin! So when Ramanuja preached >
Vishistadvaita, >>Srivaishnavism became popular in Tamilnadu and as
you said, when >>Sri.Ramanjua fled from TN and settled in Karnataka
for 12 long years it >>spread to Southern Parts of
Karnataka. >> >>The details of Hebbar Srivaishnava origin
was published long back in > the >>Hebbar Srivaishnava
magazine called "Hebbar Kshema" and I remember >
reading >>this. Also a historical novel written by Smt. Neeladevi
about the life > of >>Ramanjuja in Karnataka named "Dhanya"
gives similar answers to the > orgin of >>Hebbar
Srivaishnavas >> >>During the time when ramanjuja was in
Tondanur(Tonnur) near Melukote, a >>group of elderly Kannada
Brahmins came to Ramanjua and offered to > convert
to >>Srivaishnava Religion impressed by Ramanujas philosophy
of > Vishistadvaita. >>Ramanjua affectionately called the
group of Hiriya Haruva(Elderly > Brahmin >>Kannadigas) as
Hebbar and thus originated the sect called
Hebbar >>Sivaishnava(Iyengars). So Hebbar Srivaishnavas are
originally Kannada >>Brahimins(Advaitins) who got converted to
Srivaishnavas impressed by > the >>teachings of Sri. Ramanuja
and not of backward Caste as you said. >> >>Ramanuja asked
them to settle in different places of the Hoysala >>Kingdom(Current
South Karnataka) and thus you can find many Hebbar >>Srivaishnavas
mainly in the souther districts of Karnatka
especially, >>Bangalore, Mysore, Mandya, Tumkur, Hassan, Kolar and
Chamarajanagar >>districts. >> >>They have their
kuladaivams or Haath perumal in different places of >
these >>districts. for more info. Please visit >
www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net >><http://www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net/> >> >>Since
their mother tongue was Kannada they still have the affliction >
towards >>kannada. Gradually they learnt to speak Tamil mainlyu to
learn the > Divya >>Prabhandams. >> >>But
still Hebbar Srivaishnavas cannot read and write in Tamil. They > read
the >>Ramanujas philosophical works and Alwars divya prabhandams
translated > to >>Kannada or English. But they recite
Nalayara divyaprabhandams in > Temples in >>Karnataka forming
Gostis. They are called Melnatu Iyengars as they are >>residing in
the High plateau of Karnataka. Another sect called
Keelnatu >>Iyengars are those who migrated to Karnataka from
Tamilnadu, which is > lower >>than the Plateau of
Karnataka. >> >>I request any one in the groups who can
give more info on a unique sect >>called Hebbar Srivaishnavas of
Karnataka. >> >>Om namO nArAyanAya >>Sampige
Srinivasa
Iyengar >>Bengalooru >> > > > > > > > >
Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
Honganour Srinivasarangachar
Krishna
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