Dear Swami,
The upadEsa rethinamAlai pAsuram
:
" emperumAnAr
dharisanam enREA idhaRku nam-perumAL pEAr ittu nATTi vaithAr, am-puviyOAr
indhath dharisanathai,
emperumAnAr vaLartha andhach
cheyal aRigaikkA'-upadEsa rathinamAlai 38;
This great SrEvaishNavic faith is termed
as 'emperumAnAr dharisanam' and this name has been
given by Sri Nam-PerumAL Himself. This has been given for the sake of Sri
RamAnujA having nurtured the faith -vaLartha.
It should be observed that Sri maNavALa
mAmuigaL has used the term-vaLartha - and
not seidha. Sri RAmAnujA did not establish
the faith but nurtured and made it in an organised manner.
DAsan
vanamamalai
padmanabhan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:10
PM
Subject: Re: [Oppiliappan] Fw:
[SriRangaSri] RE: Origin of Hebbar iyengars
Dear Sri Krishna,
VishistAdvaita sampradayam is a parama vaidhika
matham. Sri Ramanuja only propagated the already existing
philosophy. EmperumAnAr was not a founder of Srivaishnavism as you have
mentioned. Swamy before writing Sribhasyam took the reference from
Bodhayana vriththi grandham that was preserved in the sarada peedam.
This bhodhayana vriththi was full and full based on VishistAdvaita
principles. That shows that even before Sri Ramanuja VishistAdvaita
philosophy was very well there. Swamy only propagated it to the
world.
Adiyen ramanuja dAsee
Sumithra Varadarajan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:23
AM
Subject: Re: [Oppiliappan] Fw:
[SriRangaSri] RE: Origin of Hebbar iyengars
Swamin:
Before Ramanuja there was only Vishnavism, and the philosophy existed
was only Advita. Sri Ramanuja made advita into Vishista-advita also called
as qualified advita or qualified monoism.He made Vishnavism into
Srivishnavisam by giving a place to SRI also known as Godess Lakshmi.
Acharya Ramanuja is the founder of Srivishnavism Sect. If you study the Life
of Sri Ramanuja, you will find that his Guru taught Ramanuja and his
class-mates advita philosophy.Later came Madhwa Charya and his philosophy
was Dwaitha also called as Dualism. Before Ramanuja the Red Line signifying
Lakshmi or Sri in the center of the Namam did not exist, it was Sri
Ramanuja who inserted the Red. It is very clear that Vishsta-advita
philosophy did not exist before Sri Ramanuja. I welcome more arguments in
this subject from learned Scholars. Adijen Krishna Sri Ramanuja
Dasan sgopan <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Sri:
Dear
BhakthAs :
It is my pleasure to share with you Sriman AMR Kannan
Swamy's posting in the Sri Ranga Sri list
.
V.Sadagopan
> Dear Sri Sampige Srinivasa
Swamin, > > Thank you sharing us about the origin of the word
Hebbar. That was very > informative. > > You have also
mentioned that Sri Ramanujacharya was not a SriVaishnava > when he
was born and was born to an advaitin. Could you please refer > some
authentic manuscripts regarding this claim? I don't think Sri >
Ramanuja was born to an Advaitin. > > We first need to
understand the social structure of Sri Ramanuja's days. > In those
days everyone who followed the Vedic (vaidika) religion wore > only
an urdhava pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme >
reality. Some of these vedic (vaidika) people might have followed >
advaita philosophy as well. But the difference between now and then
was > whether you are a advathi or a vishistadvaithi you always wore
a urdhva > pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the supreme
reality unlike the > present scenario. Therefore whatever the
difference between the (present > day) smarthas and (present day)
vaishnavas did not exists in those days. > In fact everyone followed
smartha dharmam (the rituals prescribed in > smrithis) but lived a
vaishnavite life. Therefore even if we say that > Sri Ramanuja was
born in a smartha family, we need to clearly understand > that the
present smartha-vaishnava grouping did not exist in those days. >
For example those smarthas did not wear thri-pundram. They might
have > used thiruman, srichurnam or sandal or gopi or something else
to wear an > urdhva pundram. Another example is those smarthas did
not accept other > deities as supreme reality. > >
Adiyen still remember the words of Sri Velukkudi Varadhacharyar
Swami > during one of his upanyasams in Tiruvallikkeni. Swami said,
"Vaidikas > (those who follow vedic religion) may dispute among
themselves whether > Advaita is the vedic philosophy, or
Vishistadvaita is the vedic > philosophy or Dvaita is the vedic
philosophy. But these vaidikas will > never dispute whether Sriman
Narayana is the supreme reality or some > other deity is the
ultimate truth. Because Sriman Narayana's supremacy > is what vedic
philosophy and that is what all vaidikas including > Advaitis,
Vishishtadvaitis and Dvaitis believe." But of course the > present
day situation is different. We should not gauge those days with >
present day's standards. > > Now the question comes, how do we
know for sure? We need to read the > great works done by those
acharyas. For example, Sri Adhi > Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra
Bhashayam (in particular 2nd chapter > (Avirodhathyayam, Dharga
Padham) will be a good place to start about Sri > Shankaracharya's
position on various religions practiced in his days. > Similarly,
Sri Shankaracharya's Sri Gita Bhashayam and Sri Vishnu > Sahasranama
Bhashayam would be equally good to read in order to > understand his
philosophy. > > But if we want to know the essence of these
writings, there are two > excellent books written by Puththur Sri
Sudharshanam Sri > Krishnamachariyar Swami entitled: 1. Sanga Kala
Tamizhar Samayam 2. > Shankararum Vainavamum. These two books were
written with authenticity. > These books are in Tamil. So, someone
needs to translate them for > everyone to read. They are truly
eye-openers for many misconceived > thoughts. > > Adiyen
Ramanujadasan Kannan > > >>===== Original Message
From "Sampige Srinivasa" <sampiges@xxxxxxxxxxx> >
===== >>Dear Sri. Balaji, >> >>Yes Hebbar
Iyengars were not originally Srivaishnavas as you said and >
also >>it is true that even Sri. Ramanujacharya was not a
Srivaishnava when he > was >>born. He was born to an
advaitin! So when Ramanuja preached >
Vishistadvaita, >>Srivaishnavism became popular in Tamilnadu and
as you said, when >>Sri.Ramanjua fled from TN and settled in
Karnataka for 12 long years it >>spread to Southern Parts of
Karnataka. >> >>The details of Hebbar Srivaishnava
origin was published long back in > the >>Hebbar
Srivaishnava magazine called "Hebbar Kshema" and I remember >
reading >>this. Also a historical novel written by Smt. Neeladevi
about the life > of >>Ramanjuja in Karnataka named "Dhanya"
gives similar answers to the > orgin of >>Hebbar
Srivaishnavas >> >>During the time when ramanjuja was in
Tondanur(Tonnur) near Melukote, a >>group of elderly Kannada
Brahmins came to Ramanjua and offered to > convert
to >>Srivaishnava Religion impressed by Ramanujas philosophy
of > Vishistadvaita. >>Ramanjua affectionately called the
group of Hiriya Haruva(Elderly > Brahmin >>Kannadigas) as
Hebbar and thus originated the sect called
Hebbar >>Sivaishnava(Iyengars). So Hebbar Srivaishnavas are
originally Kannada >>Brahimins(Advaitins) who got converted to
Srivaishnavas impressed by > the >>teachings of Sri.
Ramanuja and not of backward Caste as you
said. >> >>Ramanuja asked them to settle in different
places of the Hoysala >>Kingdom(Current South Karnataka) and thus
you can find many Hebbar >>Srivaishnavas mainly in the souther
districts of Karnatka especially, >>Bangalore, Mysore, Mandya,
Tumkur, Hassan, Kolar and
Chamarajanagar >>districts. >> >>They have
their kuladaivams or Haath perumal in different places of >
these >>districts. for more info. Please visit >
www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net >><http://www.karnatkavaishanavatemples.net/> >> >>Since
their mother tongue was Kannada they still have the affliction >
towards >>kannada. Gradually they learnt to speak Tamil mainlyu
to learn the >
Divya >>Prabhandams. >> >>But still Hebbar
Srivaishnavas cannot read and write in Tamil. They > read
the >>Ramanujas philosophical works and Alwars divya prabhandams
translated > to >>Kannada or English. But they recite
Nalayara divyaprabhandams in > Temples in >>Karnataka
forming Gostis. They are called Melnatu Iyengars as they
are >>residing in the High plateau of Karnataka. Another sect
called Keelnatu >>Iyengars are those who migrated to Karnataka
from Tamilnadu, which is > lower >>than the Plateau of
Karnataka. >> >>I request any one in the groups who can
give more info on a unique sect >>called Hebbar Srivaishnavas of
Karnataka. >> >>Om namO nArAyanAya >>Sampige
Srinivasa
Iyengar >>Bengalooru >> > > > > > > > >
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