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srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
srImadh varavara munayE namaha

Dear Smt Sumitra,

I am convinced somewhat, but for my better understanding, I have a
question?

Do you agree that eventhough He places a choice before the jeevAthmA, He
influences the decision of the jeevAthmA?

If your answer is yes to the above, then I have understood your posting
clearly and also, the point that the jeevAthmA does not have any
swAthanthryam is proved.

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh





"sumivaradan" 
<sumivaradan@y To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
ahoo.com>< > cc: 
Subject: [ramanuja] Re: Thirumaalai-2 
17-05-02 05:03 
AM 
Please respond 
to ramanuja 






Sri Parthasarathi thunai
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Dear Sri Venkatesh,
> The worldly analogies cannot always be used to describe emberumAn's
> activities. He is "otthAr mikkArai ilayAya mAmAyan" and "eedum
> eduppum ilAdha eesan". There is a limit to which the worldly
> analogies and logic can be used to describe emberumAn's activities.

I do accept that Emperuman's leelas cannot be fully explained with
the analogies of the world but our acharyas used the worldy analogies
to make even the lay man understand the high arthas of the sastras.
So the worldly analogies do provide us a lot of insight into the
Bhagavat visayam and to tell you more all is created by bhagavan and
everything has a link.

> The analogy provided by you is convincing though, to prove that
there
> is a freedom to the jeevAthma. But, what I wanted to know was, is
> there any pAsuram by our AzhwArs', where this jeeva swAthanthryam
is
> spoken of. Not to my knowledge. Well, I know only 2000 pAsuram.
What
> I understood was that, this swAthanthryam is accepted only by the
> vadakalais, in order to get rid emberumAn of the "sarva mukthi
> prasanga" dOsham. If at all this is acceptable to us, surely this
> might have been emphasized by any AzhwAr or AchArya. Can learned
> members please throw light on this.

Again my point never proved that the jeevatma had free will. The
bhagavan can always restrict us. What if bhagavan showed us only the
Nitya vibhuti we will have no other option to choose. If in the
example the father got the child only the knowledge kit the child is
left with no other option but since the father wanted to entertain
the child and build his maturity he got the game. Similarly bhagavan
who wanted to develop the maturity of the jeevatmas and also wanted
to keep up his leelas in this world showed the jeevatma both his
vibhuti's knowing well that the jeevatmas will get attracted only to
the leela vibhuti(vaasana bhalam) . Again Bhagavan has a hand behind
it. He is only playing with us and we are not capable of doing
anything with svathantriyam. Actually there is only a airline
difference in these understandings of the vadagalais and tengalais.
When we look in a neutral view adiyen feels we can understand better.
Again adiyen is not capable of providing you the appropriate
paasurams. Hope some learned scholars can do the same.

Adiyen Ramanuja dasyai
Sumithra Varadarajan
> AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
> adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
> Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh




azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam


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