srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Smt Sumitra, I am convinced somewhat, but for my better understanding, I have a question? Do you agree that eventhough He places a choice before the jeevAthmA, He influences the decision of the jeevAthmA? If your answer is yes to the above, then I have understood your posting clearly and also, the point that the jeevAthmA does not have any swAthanthryam is proved. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh "sumivaradan" <sumivaradan@y To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ahoo.com>< > cc: Subject: [ramanuja] Re: Thirumaalai-2 17-05-02 05:03 AM Please respond to ramanuja Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Sri Venkatesh, > The worldly analogies cannot always be used to describe emberumAn's > activities. He is "otthAr mikkArai ilayAya mAmAyan" and "eedum > eduppum ilAdha eesan". There is a limit to which the worldly > analogies and logic can be used to describe emberumAn's activities. I do accept that Emperuman's leelas cannot be fully explained with the analogies of the world but our acharyas used the worldy analogies to make even the lay man understand the high arthas of the sastras. So the worldly analogies do provide us a lot of insight into the Bhagavat visayam and to tell you more all is created by bhagavan and everything has a link. > The analogy provided by you is convincing though, to prove that there > is a freedom to the jeevAthma. But, what I wanted to know was, is > there any pAsuram by our AzhwArs', where this jeeva swAthanthryam is > spoken of. Not to my knowledge. Well, I know only 2000 pAsuram. What > I understood was that, this swAthanthryam is accepted only by the > vadakalais, in order to get rid emberumAn of the "sarva mukthi > prasanga" dOsham. If at all this is acceptable to us, surely this > might have been emphasized by any AzhwAr or AchArya. Can learned > members please throw light on this. Again my point never proved that the jeevatma had free will. The bhagavan can always restrict us. What if bhagavan showed us only the Nitya vibhuti we will have no other option to choose. If in the example the father got the child only the knowledge kit the child is left with no other option but since the father wanted to entertain the child and build his maturity he got the game. Similarly bhagavan who wanted to develop the maturity of the jeevatmas and also wanted to keep up his leelas in this world showed the jeevatma both his vibhuti's knowing well that the jeevatmas will get attracted only to the leela vibhuti(vaasana bhalam) . Again Bhagavan has a hand behind it. He is only playing with us and we are not capable of doing anything with svathantriyam. Actually there is only a airline difference in these understandings of the vadagalais and tengalais. When we look in a neutral view adiyen feels we can understand better. Again adiyen is not capable of providing you the appropriate paasurams. Hope some learned scholars can do the same. Adiyen Ramanuja dasyai Sumithra Varadarajan > AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan > Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressed individual or entity indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person). It must not be read, copied, disclosed, distributed or used by any person other than the addressee. Unauthorised use, disclosure or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Opinions, conclusions and other information on this message that do not relate to the official business of any of the constituent companies of the SANMAR GROUP shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the Group. If you have received this message in error, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by e-mail. Thank you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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