--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TCA Venkatesan <vtca@xxxx> wrote:
> Dear Sri Vishnu,
>
> I think we may getting lost in the words here.
Dear Sriman Venkatesan,
Certainly no! If we do not try to understand, why should we disucss:-)
>
> If you separate sEshatvam as servitude only and
> pAratantryam as complete dependence, then, were a
> situation to arise where, for His pleasure, He
> wishes to reverse the sEsha sEshi bhAvam between
> us and Him, then pAratantryam would dictate that
> we accept that. Hence the difference between
> Lakshmana who refused to give up direct service
> to Rama and Bharata who accepted Rama's words.
>
> If we take it that pAratantryam is the height
> of sEshatvam, then you are right - we cannot
> say that pAratantrayam allows us to remove
> sEshatvam. Therefore, you could make the case
> that Bharata did not give up service to Rama;
> he was still performing service to Him by obeying
> His words.
>
> The point here though is that the jIvAtma cannot
> hold on to its nature of sEsha and feel that that
> position cannot be changed. A paratantra accepts
> even the destruction of his sEsha bhAvam if He so
> desires. This is what sutra 92 states.
Exactly that is what I am trying to say. If at all there is some
ahankAram associated with SEshatvam (as pointed by Smt Sumithra),
pAratantryam destroys that too. This means I am not SEsham for Him on
my own, but I remain for Him (SEsham) as He wishes. Thus, there is no
ahankAram in perfect SEshatvam, as we remain for Him as He wishes.
>
> As examples, Manavala Mamunigal accepting the
> position of being an acharya to the Lord Himself
> - purely for His pleasure; and Nammazhvar allowing
> the Lord to even massage his feet - again for His
> pleasure.
Agreed! Kindly forgive me for any mistakes.
dasan
vishnu
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