Dear Bhagavathas Another rejoinder to the P and S discussion from my father. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan Aravindan ****************************************** Let me pass on what little I know on the subject. I would like to say I have still doubts, which may need a good Acharyan to clarify. We Vishitadvaithis ( as I told you, the word does not mean Vishesha or special Advaitha but it means animate, inanimate togethered and thus glorified Brahmam is one-Vishista is not Vishesha) say there are three Thathvas or principles Chit, Achit and Eswara- Thathvatraya Soul or Chit has wisdom or Gnana, power or ability to act and power or ability to enjoy as its characteristics. They are called Gyantritvam, Kartritvam and Bhogtritvam. Kartritvam is an agency function or delegated power given by Eswara and Bhogtritvam flows from Kartritvam Power to act is delegated because the Vedas say that Brahmam is the Niyantha or inner driver of the soul. The best way to start discussing about S and P is to quote Mumukshuppadi, a work of Pillailokacarya.( Mumukshuppadi explains the meaning of Rahasyatraya-namely Thirumathram, Dwayam and Charamaslokam- I hope you are clear on the difference between Thathvatrya and Rahasyatrya) M55 Seshatvame Atmavukku Swarupam M56 Seshtvam illatha pothu Swarupam illai. While explaining the inner meaning of Thirumanthram, PL says that the Akshara Ma in the first word namely Pranavam signifies souls( Om Namo Narayanaya is Thirumanthram and Om consists of Aa, U, Ma) Namaha is Na and Ma meaning not mine. In other words Namaha expands the Ma of Pranavam to say that the soul is not owned by itself but is the sesha or servant of Eswara or Seshi. This Servitude to God is the essential characteristic of or Swarupa of the Soul. The terms Seshi and sesha are difficult to define and practically impossible to translate. They literally mean Principal and Subordinate( or Remainder)In sacrificial parlance they express the relationship between the main rite and subsidiary rituals In Srivaishnava usage Sesha-Seshi relationship is most often illustrated in terms of the servant- master relationship. Thus we have four characteristics for the Soul-Gyantritvam, Kartritvam, Bhogtritvam and Seshatvam. Ramanuja states as under in his Vedartha Sangraha( VS 246)about the relativities of these four. The soul?s nature is distinct from(all kinds of )bodies (gods etc), Has knowledge( gnana),as its one characteristic( aakaara) and has subservience( seshatva) to the Supreme as its sole nature(swarupa) Thus Seshatva is more central to the Soul?s essential nature than Gyantritva.. Now you can understand why Alvars and Andal have said Ozhivil kalamellam----vazhuvila adimai seyyavedum, Unakke nam Aatcheivom etc. Now a little bit about Parathanthrium. P is an evolved form of S .Let me quote from Acharya Hridhayam to explain P. AH 21 Seshatva Bhogtritvangal pol anre Parathanthria Bhogytaigal Manavalamamunigal explains as under this. Seshtvam is to make oneself suitable for the actions of the Lord. Parathanthrium is allowing oneself to be utilised by the Lord as He pleases. Bhogtritvam is enjoying oneself the pleasures of serving the Lord. Bhogyatvam is allowing the Lord to enjoy the pleasures of the service rendered by the soul. This is the ultimate ego shattering practice. This is giving up of Swayatnam even to preserve oneself . Thirukkanamangai andan?s example is quoted here. Seshatvam goes with Bhogtritvam . P goes with Bhogyathai. The Sutra says that Seshatvam and Bhogyatvam that goes with S are different from P and Bhogyatahai that goes with P. The latter is superior.. I am doubtful as to how one should practise P as all these are mental attitudes. Prabhathi or Saranagathi is the surrender of our free will to act to the Lord ,telling Him that I don?t want my autonomy as I will mess up my life, please take it back and guide me. Are you able to see the link between S and P on the one hand and Prabhathi on the other? Have I conveyed something useful? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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