Re: [compost_tea] Roto-tilling is evil?

From: oliver hauver <enoc2222_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:39:39 -0800 (PST)

Frank,
 Thanks for the Excelant reply
Right now what we(my family) are puting is dried sheep and goat manure from the bottom of the pens.ect(my dadget his from people who don't use any chemicals because our farm is certified organic sooo...) so i would think it might be partialy composted for being on the bottom of the pen for a while
when we get it we get it by the trailer load and we unload it directly into the garden beds
(about 6"-12" deep)after we finish filling a bed we till it to smooth it out and to mix it in with some of the original soil and then water with drip irigation for about 2-3 hours
the soil when we add the manure is moist not soggy and not dry and we the times we till are when we put the manure on mayb once if there are alot of weeds and then once bfore we plant(seed or starts)
LMK
thanks
Oliver
Frank L Teuton <fteuton_at_sympatico.ca> wrote:
Hi Oliver,
 
I am going to give you my take on this, and let Doc Ingham take it from there. My answer is, 'it depends'. It depends on how much sheep manure you till in, on how much tillage you do, on how wet or dry the clay is when you till, and on what the condition of the soil was before tilling.
 
We are fighting a big battle with weeds, both perennial and annual. The upside of this is that the soil is getting a good dose of 'cover crops', thus lots of organic matter. A clay soil already well endowed with organic matter can withstand rototilling better than a clay with not so much organic matter. If you have organic matter to burn, then tilling isn't so evil...;-)
 
In my experience, working with poor clay means you need to add a lot of organic matter and you need to be careful to work the clay when it is moist but not wet. Adding a good amount of raw organic matter is also helpful; things like chopped straw and rice hulls, shredded leaves and even chipped branch wood can be good in the right amounts.
 
The very heavy clay soils I have lived on have been generally quite fertile. They have also been mostly covered with turf, and well supplied with organic matter and populations of hard working mesofauna, especially worms. A poor clay soil will take time to develop its full potential.
 
It is my judgment that mixing organic matter into a poor clay soil is a good thing to do if it is done under the right conditions (moisture content) and if the amounts are substantial enough to offset the penalty of such heavy churning as a rototiller commits.
 
One to three inches of fully or partially composted sheep manure, tilled in to the top three to six inches of soil under good conditions, would be a fine amendment for most any soil, including clay. For clay, partially composted might be the better choice, as more energy would be available to build badly needed soil structure.
 
If you had a great deal of organic material and time to wait, you can mulch a poor heavy clay, and wait for the soil to develop. 'If you build it they will come' applies to a whole spectrum of soil organisms that will migrate to an improved soil site.
 
Now, here's where compost tea can help. If you do have poor soil and not such great or diverse organic matter and organism sources, then the addition of good compost tea to your soil can provide the organisms you need to help build the soil with the organic matter you are adding. It is on such poor soils that the use of compost tea plus an organic matter source, including perhaps a program of green manuring and temporary pasturing if possible, can really help dramatically improve the land.
 
Obviously there are other possible questions that need to be asked, such as the chemical analysis of the soil, drainage, and so forth, but I would say that with a rototiller and enough sheep manure poor clay could be improved. If you don't have enough, well then that is another matter.
 
Hope that helps,
 
Frank Teuton
----- Original Message -----
From: oliver hauver
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Roto-tilling is evil?


Dr.Ingham
 I have been following these post on roto-tilling and was wanting to ask a question
will rototilling(when adding sheep maure) help improve or worsen Clay soil?
LMK
Oliver


soilfoodweb_at_aol.com wrote:
Tch, tch, you are evil then, Frank? That's a chuckle and a grin with that statement. You do have to remember that the emotive part of statements don't come thorugh in e-mails, and what you meant as a pleasantry gets to be pretty unpleasant if you don't give clues to the foils at the other end. I've been guilty of same, so I can't really lecture you about that. Except, of course, I am. How human! Grin!

I think applying the term "evil" to something that can be necessary in order to achieve your purpose is what bothers me. And the association, or intimation, that I would have said that a management practice is evil bothers me, since I have not made that statement.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com



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Received on Wed Nov 26 2003 - 14:08:41 EST

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