[compost_tea] Re: G.S. I . Tea results, Hi everyone, Dr.e ,ted ,steve,thanks for the help

From: David Hall <dchall8_at_texas.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:00:25 -0000

Well all the formatting and many changes got lost in my previous
message.  I'm reposting corrections.  Hopefully it will be
complete
and legible this time. 

[David Hall] Rule number 1 for successfully growing stuff is to pick
well-adapted plants. 

[Tom Jaszewski replies] Interesting if you have the luxury of
following "rules."   Actually I find that to be a somew= hat
misguided
judgment.  In the world of golf, estate, and resort management we
learn to culture what has been installed.

[David Hall reply] Don't go changing the subject on me.  We're
talking about judging a tea by its ability to drain water into the
soil. 

----------------------------
[David Hall] I can see where using compost tea would be a great
short cut to getting the beneficial microbes in place.  Still after considerable in depth discussions with many professional turf
caretakers using pure chemical programs,

[Tom Jaszewski replies] I'm not certain they would be the best
choice for assessing sustainable practices….

[David Hall reply] Again, I'm not offering these guys experts for
sustainable practices.  I'm using their considerable experience as evidence that you can use a full chemical program and still be able
to water deeply.  That's all I'm saying. 

----------------------------
[David Hall] I believe the microbes are not a consideration to the
ability of soil to absorb water to great depths. 

[Tom Jaszewski replies] Sorry Dave but you're just flat out
wrong,
and I don't think it's well thought out to base your opinion
on that
single experience.

[David Hall reply] Just in case this discussion slips further off
track, we are not talking about me being right or wrong.  We are
talking about totals of about one hundred chemically managed lawns
absorbing water for hours on end without runoff.  No tea was used on <= BR> them.  The management practices were very deliberate, intense,
successful, and repeatable.  I can tell you nobody was more
disappointed than I was at the inevitable conclusion.  If you don't want to learn from my experience on this, you will have to repeat
the experience yourself with your own battery of chemical experts.  Finding ones with this experience may take you awhile.  I just
posted the watering technique used successfully by these turf
managers to "train" their properties to need water less often.&nb= sp;

----------------------------
[David Hall] I'm as organic as I can be, and I evangelize as much as
I can, but on the subject of deep watering, there is too much
evidence that turf under pure chemical programs can be watered
deeply if they purposely develop that capacity.

[Tom Jaszewski replies] I'd like to read that evidence, could you
point it out?  I would argue that without adequate soil biology, in many soils, we would dead end the process.  Before ACT and high
quality compost most soils here NEVER allowed for the development of
deep roots.  Often in urban landscapes the soils are so compacted
that water alone will never break the soil open or develop structure
in soils.

[David Hall reply] I'm afraid you will have to do your own research
on this.  My sources have dried up, so to speak.  Your argument w= as
mine exactly at the beginning.  As the evidence against me built, it <= BR> would have been suicidal to keep resting on microbes alone.  These guys were coming at me in droves with property after property that
never needed mechanical aeration, absorbed unlimited amounts of
water, and did not require watering for a minimum of 7 days in the
Phoenix summer.  One guy managed only properties where he had the
key to the automatic waterer.  He had 30 properties and he assured me (I realize this is the Internet) that none of his properties was
watered more than weekly.  In the end I believed him.  Since then= I
have established "My" 1-2-3 of Turf Management that starts with 1= )
deep infrequent watering, 2) mowing tall, and 3) regular fertilizing
(organic or chemical).  The weight I gage for success in a turf
program are 1):  60%, 2):  30%, and 3):  10%.  The diff= erences
between organic and chemical programs are home safety, environmental
support, and the lesser consideration that 100% organic properties
are absolutely no hassle at all to manage. 

----------------------------
[David Hall] Can microbially balanced soils be watered more deeply?  <= BR> No doubt, but for the purposes we're talking about here, I don't see
the infrequent watering as giving you a marketing edge for compost
tea.  That's all I'm saying.

[Tom Jaszewski replies] That may be true in you experience.  However <= BR> in 20 years of experience with urban soils it simply IS an edge.

[David Hall reply] If it gives you a marketing edge, great!  Again I'm saying that your savvy chemical competition can make the same
argument and demonstrate it all day long with satisfied customer
after satisfied customer.  Your argument is with them; I am but a
messenger.  Visit a couple website forums for professional turf
managers and ask them. 


[Jeff Lowenfels replied]
Returning microbes to the soil, most certainly increases the ability
of soil to hold water. Micro and macro tunneling, the subway system
dead fungal hyphae create, worms, beetles, larvae....not to mention
the creation of soil structure where it is missing.....And if you
have good soil, you have organics which hold lots of water.....the
microbes won't live without the organics, so there is a double water
whammy here.  These benefits do deeper as more microbes establish
themselves and roots get deeper.

[David Hall reply]
I agree.  I have tried not to contradict this statement and still
make the point that you can have a 100% chemical treated turf and
still have water frequency requirements much better than what was
claimed as attributed to good tea. 

The soil's ability to absorb water is certainly improved with
organic matter; however, if you are going to wait a year to have a
marginal improvement happen naturally, I can do it better in more
like 3 weeks with proper water management - no matter what your
fertilizer program.  I preach this in the forums and every season I get born again infrequent waterers thanking me for the help. 

David Hall
San Antonio, TX





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Received on Tue Nov 09 2004 - 02:31:12 EST

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