Re: [compost_tea] Re: Rock Dust

From: butch ragland <wilddog_202_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:22:45 -0800 (PST)
would a tea that was brewed to act as a fungicide or
just an application of fungicide then follow with a
wash of ACT at whatever interval required to allow the
fungicide to kill the mildew. the ACT would then
repopulate the leaf surface with beneficial organisms.
this does not suggest that working for a more gentle
approach could still be looked for.
--- Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net> wrote:

> Folks:
>
> Remember we aren't discussing suppression of new
> growth but eradication of existing mildew growth.
> CT has shown that it can suppress new mildew growth
> and restrict outbreaks.  That is nothing new. It
> works.  Where I run into problems is when
> eradication is indicated.  These are two different
> things entirely.  CT both with and without granite
> dust suppressed the spread of mildew on grapes.
> However, CT with or without rock dust did nothing to
> existing outbreaks.  Once the mildew becomes
> established, I have only seen Sulphur dust or orther
> recognized fungicides have any effect. 
>
> Now, I have tried using Ammonium Sulfate on mildew.
> I figured that if I diluted enough in aerated water,
> I would get the benefits of the nitrogen and the
> prevention of the sulfates.  Well it was great in
> theory but did nothing when applied.  I tried
> different dillutions and only visually observed the
> results.  At one point the N got so strong that it
> burned the leaves. So I guess one could say that a
> leaf burned by nitrates represented fungal
> eradication but that is kind of like saying: "I
> removed the plant to cure the mildew."  That is
> organic to the max but hardly practical.
>
> It's hard to say to a client: "I can cure mildew
> without any inputs at all.  I just chop down your
> infected plants and the healthy plants closest to
> them. After all, it works for cancer so if we look
> at mildew like a cancer, we can eradicate the sick
> plants but to ensure it hasn't spread, we will
> remove the healthy plants around it."  Sounds
> rational but hardly practiacal 
>
> Since mildew appears to be soil-borne, this approach
> may not solve the problem at all.
>
> But I think this whole discussion started with
> rusts.  You know, in my experience, CT is a
> wonderful preventative but a terrible short-range
> curative.  Where CT can possibly prevent rust
> outbreaks it is doubtful that it can cure existing
> outbreaks.  Maybe additives could be added to the
> brew to accomplish this but we have a couple of
> problems.  Here is the thought experiment based on a
> number of different tests:
>
> 1. CT, in general, is the transferrance of aerobic
> bacteria and fungi from compost to plants and soil
> in a different form using processes (aerobic
> brewing) that magnify the amounts of these
> benificials.
>
> 2. This, in turn, allows the plant to utilize the
> diversity of biology in the compost and nutrients in
> the soil to feed and more effectively self-control
> their local environment. (Plant gets stressed, sends
> out exudate that triggers bacteria/fungi to produce
> enzymes that interact in the soil or on the leaf and
> the plant gets the nutrients it needs to resolve the
> stress.)
>
> 3. Adding something to CT that acts as a fungicide
> is probably non-specific in that it doesn't just
> kill one type of fungi.  Since plants need fungi
> which are generally higher-order than bacteria,
> anything that acts as a fungicide would very likely
> kill the beneficials also.
>
> 4. So while we can find additives to tea that may
> have eradicative powers we have turned what we are
> applying away from CT and towards an extract.  For
> example, you could add sulphur dust to a brewer
> which has brewed a healthy, aerobic CT with a large
> biomass.  The sulphur would have a negative effect
> on the CT but may eradicate a number of things when
> applied.  Saying: "My CT cured such and such would
> not be accurate because what was applied was not CT.
>
> Ted Peterson
> EW/SOE


=====
Butch Ragland
Conflict is as addictive as
cocaine, alcohol, cigarettes,etc
I'm sorry to report that
cooperation is not


           
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Received on Thu Nov 25 2004 - 23:15:43 EST

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