[compost_tea] Re: Re: Re: non-aerated teas?

From: Kirk Leonard <kirkleon_at_open.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:20:11 -0800
Hmm, I'll do my best to respond, being at best a novice on microbiology.  I
also am not seeking to defend anaerobic teas.  As much as Brinton's last
article could be debated, that and earlier work he's done do indicate that
good teas can be made that are not "aerobic" as in ACT aerobic.  Again, I'm
willing to believe healthy water (and compost contents) will keep itself
aerated - if nutrient loads are controlled.

> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:01:38 -0500
> From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: non-aerated teas?
>
> In my experience, most of the disease causing organisms are facultative
anaerobes, and when oxygen drops too low, then  the disease-causers are in
an environment that allows them to finally "win".
>
> So, I'd really like to undestand the basis for your statement, Kirk, where
you say the anaerobes are beneficial.  I don't have any evidence to say that
is true. <

I'm referring primarily to the 95+% of E.coli, which are mostly facultative
anaerobes essential to the working of animal intestines, and I BELIEVE there
are beneficial anaerobes that work in compost, as well, though I can't name
them.  I am simply relying on experience of compost piles that have "gone
anaerobic" (nose test) but are brought back around with aeration and good
compost results in the end.  They appear not to have harmed the compost, so
I regard them as beneficial, adding to the decomposition/recompostion
process.  And it seems to me if anaerobes were always bad, no one would be
using anaerobic digestion.

> And when other folks say they get good results from anaerobic tea, but
they have done nothing to show that the tea is indeed lacking in oxygen,
then I can't agree with their conclusion that they are using anaeorbic tea.

But you can't definitively state they weren't either, hmm?  I really don't
know about anaerobic teas... don't think I ever made one.  And I tend to
agree - again, believing that good water and good compost will support good
oxygen conditions, aerated or not.

> What they have evidence to show is that, when they don't aerate tea, don't
put any food into the tea, then the tea can, sometimes, give some pretty
interesting results. <

Real good results in my experience.

> Kirk, you also wrote that some aerobes are dangerous.  Again, where do you
have that as evidence?  Human pathogens that are found in sewage are
facultative anaerobes.  There may be other fully aerobic human pathogens,
but they are in completely different habitats than the ones we consider in
the world of soil, or manures, whatever. <

Anthrax is an aerobic bacterium, and I have been led to believe the bacteria
associated with skin infections, for example, are aerobic critters, as well.
I'm not thinking tea, per se.

> Your statement was:
> "Most anaerobes are beneficial, some aerobes are dangerous, and
facultative critters can be a problem are what I've learned here.  Only
concentrations of nasties are a problem, though, not the method used to make
the tea, hmm?" <

I over-generalize here, mea culpa, but we know that pathogens are
everywhere, so it is not their mere presence that presents problems, it is
elevated concentrations of them.  Plant and animal immune systems adapt to
deal with them, with the support of soil organisms, oxygen and sunshine,
sometimes antibiotics.  Which gets me back to a question I asked a while
back:  Is it possible that anaerobic teas can have beneficial antibiotic
effects?  I really don't know but it seems possible.

> I don't understand the last sentence either.  Would it be possible to
clarify a bit, so I could understand?  The method used to make the tea
results in good guys or bad guys growing, or not.  So, how could there be a
blanket statement about method?  <

Didn't mean to make a blanket statement about method... but it sure seems
like you may be doing that.

Your opening comment was interesting - "most of the disease causing
organisms are facultative anaerobes."  What about all those other anaerobes?
What proportion of anaerobes are facultative vs. strictly anaerobic?

Do I need to say this was about non-aerated teas, not anaerobic teas?  The
former I have a lot of experience with, the latter none, as far as I know.

What about those really stanky comfrey teas and the good results reported?

Kirk



Yahoo! Groups Links

Received on Mon Jan 10 2005 - 14:07:41 EST

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Tue Feb 07 2012 - 14:15:43 EST