RE: [compost_tea] chelate question for the chemists out there

From: George and Paulette Mouchet <geomouchet_at_QNET.COM>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:58:42 -0700

Dear Dr. E:

Thanks for the info. I still have a couple of questions.

I was thinking about all this in terms of applying a chelated product such
as chelated iron to a plant. The chelation process would have occured at
the manufacturer's lab before I got the product. Many chelated iron
products use EDTA but I've also seen lignin as the chelating agent.

I was under the impression that beneficial microbes were required to
separate the chelated molecule BEFORE it actually went inside the plant.
 Apparently this is not so. Apparently, the chelated molecule goes into
the plant intact.

What happens to the chelated molecule AFTER it goes into the plant?

Can the plant utilize the chelated molecule in tact?

Are there beneficial microbes inside the plant that separate the chelated
molecule (ex. into EDTA and iron) so the plant can use it?

Are there other biological processes that go on inside of the plant that
break apart the chelated molecule so the plant can use it?

What happens to the chelation material (ETDA, lignin, etc.) after the plant
utilizes the metal molecule?

Thanks,
Paulette



-----Original Message-----
From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com [SMTP:soilfoodweb_at_aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:46 PM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] chelate question for the chemists out there

I like the "chemical" description of chelation. Sorry, being sarcastic.

"the chelation process removes the positive charge from metals [such as
iron], allowing the neutral or slightly negatively
charged chelated molecule to slide through the pores on the leaf [I assume
they mean the stomata] and root surface more rapidly."

Any biological cell has a net negative charge. So a positively charged
cation has trouble getting through the leaf surface, either through stomate
(usually easier to get through, simple movement of materials can result in
movement through), or through individual cells.

In order to speed uptake, cations need to be neutralized, and the typical
biological way to do this is to attach the cation to a protein. In this
normal situation, it takes active, living biology to perform the chelation
process.

Chelation can be done by addition of chelating agents, but those chelating
agents are normally NOT present in soil. EDTA for example is not found in
soil to speak of, or at least I know of no evidence that it is. Show me
the data if I have missed something though.

So, chelation isn't something that just happens. It requires biological
energy to make the molecules that neutralize the positive charge on
cations.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com


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Received on Tue May 27 2003 - 23:04:55 EDT

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