Re: [compost_tea] adding VAM ?

From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:25:53 EDT

OK, this has gone far enough.

First, Mike Amaranthus makes many more products than a tablet of VAM spores.
Go look at the Mycorrhizal Applications website to see the truth about that.


Please read what Amaranthus has written if you want to know what he has
worked on. Don't take a competitor's remarks as being gospel. Check out what
people say, especially when they are trying to flame the competition.

Mycorrhizal Applications has some quite good endomycorrhizal folks working
for the company. Their mix of VAM species in their general inoculum is
standard. They have chosen a mix of species that colonize in arid, semi-arid and
mesic conditions. Typically what they sell you will include both VAM and
ecto-mycorrhizal spores.

I support Mycorrhizal Applications as one of the best inocula (but please
note, that's ONE OF the best, implying there are other good ones), because their
product has ALWAYS come out in the top three in any trial that I have worked
on, or observed. My criteria for top? The colonization of the roots has
been greatest as compared to other products. I don't generally care how many
spores are present, because spores can be present, but not viable. Spores may be
not capable of growing in the conditions of a person's field.

Mycorrhizal Applications have consistent results. Plant Health Care also has
consistent results. They have sometimes not recognized that you have to
understand ALL the biology in soil in order to have a good idea what is going to
work. Ted St. John's products have not been consistent from trial to trial, so
I do not typically recommend them.

Could my point-of-view change? Sure, but ONLY if the data show my views
should change. The data have to come from independent testing facilities, not
from in-house trials. Mycorrhizal Applications has given their product to
nearly every University on the west coast, and the trials are clear that their
product does what they claim. The data are on their website. NO ONE can say that
there is no proof that mycorrhizal colonization - VAM or ecto - improves
plant production. OK, not always bigger plants, but generally, we don't care
about that either. We want more flowers, deeper color, better flavor in the
fruit, better shelf life, better nutrition, less water requirement. Data are being
generated that show these things. And of course, the rest of the biology
helps too.

Whose claims do you believe? Go look at the websites. If all you see are
testimonials, no names given, or only family member names, or names of people
associated or employed by the company, then start being suspicious. I am not
talking specifically about any company, here, ok? This is a general case.

Actually, I am thinking specifically about the worst offender that I know,
but it's an entirely different product than VAM. But a great way to remember
all the things that snake oil salesmen use in trying to charm you into buying
their product. Smoke and mirrors. I keep getting phone calls from people who
bought the smoke and mirrors....

If you see experiments, good data, then ok, comfort zone is improving. Even
better is if there are independent growers whose e-mail or phone numbers are
on the website. Call them up and talk with them about their experience.

Don't trust someone who is a dealer for the company - they are biased. They
want to sell you something, and some people will say anything to make a sale.
Talk to growers who have no stake in the success of the business to determine
if the product works.

With mycorrhizal fungi, talk to the manufacturer and ask about data showing
results IN THE SAME CLIMATE AS YOU. Ask them about specificity of your plants
for different species of mycorrhizal fungi.

And there are specificities. Not so much for plant species, but for habitat.
  That's what Tom J. was talking about. Don't go twisting his words to try
to attack a competitor. That's poor form.

Palms on the beach in Waikiki have a different set of VAM cultivars growing
on them than palms in Las Vegas. Can we predict which species will do best in
which conditions? Not aware of that kind of information being available in
the scientific literature. Some of the manufacturers do know that kind of
information, however.
You have to talk to them.

There is specificity with respect to habitat, climate, conditions in the
soil. That's why typically only one or two species of VAM colonize, even when
there may have been 6 to 10 species in the inoculum.

With time, as season changes, as weather conditions change, other species in
the inoculum could wake up and colonize as well. But probably even more
important in the long run, is that the mycorrhizal assocation is established, and
therefore the benefit to the plant has begun. INDIGENOUS mycorrhizal fungi can
more easily establish, as well. So the conversion has begun. The inoculum
gets things started.

So, criticism is fine, as long as the criticism is backed by data. Evaluate
the honesty of salespeople. Take a look at websites. Talk to the sales
force.

It would be great to have people evaluate different websites and offer their
opinions. Report back to the list serve with your evaluation of who knows
what they are talking about.

Enough hype.

Ah, if you check the SFI website, and think it's terrible, could you say
something to me first? Give us a chance to remedy the problem before you
flame...... ok? I'm sure any business person would appreciate the help.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand

"Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well,
but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things
turn out." -- Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic





Received on Wed Jun 11 2003 - 13:05:56 EDT

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