[compost_tea] Re: Molasses, Seaweed & RUp

From: Kirk Leonard <kirk_at_oregonatural.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:54:31 -0700

Doc, Bill -- Thanks for your replies. I hope I'm not actually "so bent on
the molasses"... Just asking questions, and I will trust my dictionaries as
primary info sources to guide me in asking further questions, by golly!
Blackstrap molasses must have at some point contained rum, and I would be
asking about alcohols in it if I was buying it today. What I used recently
was "cane molasses," trusting the inorganics don't get passed through and it
didn't contain alcohols. I wonder about beet molasses, having run into some
clopyralid there a couple years ago. I don't believe we need to seek
strictly "organic" molasses.

Doc E said:
> Interesting that lots more molasses and seaweed
> did not improve fungal or bacterial biomass.
> If anything, there was less growth. That suggests what?
> A salt limitation on growth? More foods should result
> in more growth, but that did not happen.

> Check the seaweed.
Aha! Thanks for your insightful reply on Russell's teas (and for confirming
I wasn't crazy...:). It didn't seem like the molasses would have made that
much difference, unless it did contain alcohol. And thanks for the
blackstrap clarification. Question becomes for me: Russell, how did you
make such a good fungal compost?

Also, I think you've hit on better logic for constraining bacteria, as it
were: Restricting bacterial foods, rather than heavy doses of molasses (and
it's not just the humping weight, it's the sticky, stainy mess..:-). Fungal
foods and fungal composts seem to be the key to fungal teas. Seems like
bacteria will be there and take care of themselves pretty much no matter
what.

I appreciate being vigilant about pathogens. Except for a handful of real
nasties, though, don't we depend on some exposure to develop immunities? I
think that's why food is generally safer than driving, anyway, and why one
should avoid "antibacterial" chemical concoctions, not to mention antibiotic
hoses. I'm still amazed by that... and have been an Ecover user for many
years. Bad farm practices (e.g., using raw manure contaminated ditch water
for watering), bad processing (pick any number of big meat or milk fiascos
and a few plant examples) and bad handling (workers with dirty hands or
illnesses and stupid organizations) still seem much, much more dangerous
than compost or teas for passing on pathogens in plants. Do I need to say
again how wrong I think USDA can be?

Bill H:
> Do you have any evidence that Rup or others
> effect worms,and all the bacteria,fungi etc.in the soil.?
I have experienced deleterious effects from RUp, and yes, there is a lot of
evidence that "-cides" and inorganic fertilizers seriously disrupt and can
destroy soil biology. Doc E and Hendrikus said it again recently, but I
don't have quotes. Basically, their generally concentrated salt forms simply
whack the organisms. As in osmotic shock waves. The saving grace, I
suppose, is that they will always come back, eventually (if OM hasn't been
driven to zero). I imagine Doc E could go on for many hours citing the
evidence, but I wouldn't ask her to do that... I believe and have taken the
pledge not to use these things ever again... mostly, minimally, anyway.

Before I got a grasp on what it was really doing, I actually used about $800
of the stuff (RUp) battling with various dandelions and broadleafs on a
half-acre of lawn that had had no care in many years. When I started I was
dealing with several generations of multi-level broadleafs owning large
patches of ground. Today, I confess I still use about a quart a year
(though less this year) of spot-applied Weed-B-Gon, a slightly less toxic
herbicide, to whack them when I can't dig them. We have short Fall/Spring
windows here when the soil is soft enough to get down (spot digging:) the 2
feet or more a dandy taproot can go. Hopefully, this will end as soon as
the two-footers are gone. Using a half-liter of RUp a year seems OK...
somewhere past IPM and real close to organic. As Doc E suggests, it's the
quest that counts. Imo, anyone who uses compost and tea is going organic,
and we all deal with compromises (like neighbors who aren't as anal about
broadleafs:) along the way.

I have to take a personal break here to say I love the mosses and clovers
and other subtle green things, even low-lying composites that happen
naturally in our local lawny grounds. My lawn is not a monoculture, nor do
I seek that. For some reason, tall broadleafs get my goat... In defense of
dandelions, though, they can be tasty, healthy greens and I hear the roots
make excellent oils, but I'm not willing to let them have my lawn.

> Carry on the good work but realise that
> there are millions of acres to care about and
> fix your thoughts on this as well as the local garden.
I hear you, Bill. It's been estimated that something like 40% of pesticides
and inorganic fertilizers that leach into US watersheds, streams and rivers
are runoff from "local gardens" (mostly lawns, it seems - other 60%
agriculture, and in US anyway, frigging golf courses...), so addressing us
little guys is also important. I understand big ag operations have problems
that may require chemical applications. I want to hear they are driving
that down, too, and addressing their regional, continental and global
impacts, as well. Organic and natural works bigtime, too, on every level.
We can do better without RoundUp and Stinger in this world.

One of the major things I really appreciate about ACT is its large scale
adaptability, and I revere hearing from farmers who are going big on it, and
ag experiments we hear about here... Where's Jose, darnit? ... and Tom J and
James S for their successes in large-scale landscaping.

Again, Russell -- How did you make such good fungal compost? And did the
molasses quantities in your CT samples include the activation amounts?

Kirk L




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Received on Tue Jul 22 2003 - 19:13:22 EDT

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