Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT

From: Paul Sachs <pdsachs_at_localnet.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:50:52 -0400

Ray,

I'd be happy to donate the boosters (microbe food) for all three tests so t=
hat you can keep that factor constant.

Paul Sachs
North Country Organics
P.O. Box 372
203 Depot St
Bradford, VT 05033
802.222.4277
fax 802.222.9661
pds_at_norganics.com
www.norganics.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: ray gore
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT


  Yeah I would be all over doing a test and comparing
  our epm 500, modified growing sols and a bob-o and
  paying for all three to be tested by SFI as long as i
  knew that the starting ingredients were all the same.
  If the bob-0 outcompeted the others I would easily buy
  more than a few. Ray G
  --- Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yeah GO. I am interested in that test result. Can we
> talk about the proceedure? Bob
>
> Steve Bridges <kimas_at_texasgrown.com> wrote:I've got
> a BobOLator and a 22gal Earth Tea Brewer. I'm ready
> to start testing. If my testing can tie into what
> you're proposing, I'll be glad to participate.
>
> We would all have to use the same compost and the
> same ingredients, calibrated for brew size. That
> still doesn't eliminate variables such as
> temperature, water quality, etc. But we could still
> gain some useful insight.
>
> Steve Bridges
> BobO 50gal and EPM 22gal (good idea Judi!)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Loring
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
>
>
> Dennis - You're right of course, it can't be done
> with a single test. It wouldn't be fair whatever
> the outcome. Any rigorous test would have at least
> four repetitions of the same experiment. Maybe
> there are enough machines out there that we would
> have at least two identical machines for each type
> manufactured. If there were not really significant
> differences then that might tell the story. I'm
> open to anything that will actually sort out some of
> these variables, even those we expect in the lab
> results. Maybe Elaine would tell us what the
> acceptable limits are for her lab testing in the
> sense of one sample being run multiple times as a
> quality control test. I agree that there are limits
> to what any lab can do. I don't know what to think
> at this point, I've never sent paired, blind samples
> before. I would pay for one of the samples though
> if someone paid for the other.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dkemnitz2000
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:49 PM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
>
>
> ---Dave, I was trying to point out there are many
> variables included
> even in the testing, even of objective tests. I run
> a flour sample
> here (myself) and do all the sample prep one day and
> do it again the
> next day and get different numbers (vitamins B1 and
> B2 for instance)
> each day. New variables the next day? Sample
> changed? Usually the
> numbers are close but what do you do when it comes
> time for
> disposition esp when numbers are not close? Maybe
> average, maybe
> rerun sample, maybe get another sample? Maybe
> re-write the specs.?
> Maybe throw out one for some reason. Anyway
> experimental design will
> be important in the brewer tests. Dennis
>
>
>
> In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Loring"
> <dloring3_at_c...> wrote:
> > Dennis - I agree with about 95% of what you've
> said but there is a
> need for testing in my mind, not with someones hard
> found recipe, but
> with a mutually agreed to compost and food of some
> kind. Unless we
> can get information about the variability of these
> machines then
> we're all on our own a bit and progress, much
> needed, will be
> difficult. It's hard to extrapolate to new
> situations unless we nail
> down the variables one at a time. I think the
> strength of this forum
> is found in combining our sometimes expensive
> experiences. I've
> spent a couple thousand on testing myself without
> any product except
> that I teach. Those of us in the non-commercial
> world stand to gain
> the most from sharing. If I can pay for only one
> report and get the
> answers from 5-10 others I'd consider it money well
> spent.
> > Dave
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: dkemnitz2000
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:04 PM
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
> >
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "tomjasz"
> <tom_at_l...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, but understandably the
> developers of the
> nutrient
> > > packs have invested thousands of dollars in
> their "recipes".
> Two
> > > developers I have conversations with aren't
> particularly
> excited
> > > about having a competition. They are busy with
> their farmers,
> fruit
> > > growers and viticulturists developing
> successful operations
> based
> > on
> > > sustainable practice and using ACT as a part
> of the program.
> The
> > > controlled testing has been going on with
> several manufacturers
> for
> > > several years. The idea of a competition
> borders on the
> ridiculous
> > > from my perspective. What would such a
> competition achieve?
> > > Apparently several tea systems are producing
> stellar results.
> Some
> > > find the need to blather about and have NOT
> achieved any
> consistent
> > > successes.(comment not directed at list!) I
> continue to suspect
> > they
> > > bandy about only the best of their tests.
> Other manufacturers
> > > consistently produce high quality tea without
> competitions or
> this
> > > list. Please don't misunderstand that
> comment...there are over
> 300
> > > members and about ten posters!!!
> > >
> > > Thanks for the invitation Tom! I already wrote
> Brewer Bob and
> this
> > list two opinions earlier today which I
> cancelled for
> consideration
> > to all.
> > I'd have to say my bottom line is cost
> perhaps like many of
> you.
> > I believe in tests, like Jeff. I am a lab tech
> in a food testing
> lab
> > and don't make enough money to hire tests on
> tea I'll use on a
> 65
> > acre farm. In our lab we use standard testing
> procedures. Some
> > samples(duplicates) are sent to other labs to
> see how we compare
> to
> > them. You might be suprised but they don't get
> the same answer
> we
> > get any way. Even labs(and brewers) must deal
> with accuracy and
> > precision.
> > So I'll be brewing, testing applying and
> reporting based on
> what I
> > glean from this board and seminars and cd's and
> ATTRA and
> whatever
> > else might work without hiring many experts. I
> guess this is
> better
> > than spraying pesticides herbicides and
> fertilizers. Dennis
> Kemnitz
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
>
  === message truncated ===


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Received on Wed Sep 03 2003 - 16:18:41 EDT

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