Re: [compost_tea] Re: Molasses

From: Mike Harvey <mharvey_at_westnet.com.au>
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:01:47 +0800

Kirk,
Thanks for the constructive comments.
Let me Clarify.
My objective in using Molasses is
1. Provide an economical food for the M.O out in the field so that
beneficial organisms can multiply.
2.Reduce the harmful effect of root feeding Nematodes in the crop (strawbs
or grapes etc).

The objective is not to grow high populations of fungi and bacteria in the
AACT per se. The objective is to provide a food source for the organisms so
when they are applied to the soil there will be food to continue the growth
thus hopefully the effect on the soil food web will be greater than using
AACT with minimal food reserves.

Molasses where we are is CHEAP and is a by product of sugar cane production.
It is difficult to work with true. I agree it is not for most tea makers
merely an area of interest for those able to obtain Molasses at an
economical price. Note compared to humic acid it is WAY cheaper. I am
talking about properties of 3000 acres down to large intensive Hort
operations that would buy tonnes at a time. Home gardening I would not
bother, compost is a much better option as a food source for MO.

You said- Compost or mulches or greens turned in sure seem less expensive
than
 molasses, and again, why do you want to feed molasses, in this case alone?

Absolutely right however many growers are not using compost or green manures
and even with green manures there can still be a deficiency in beneficial
organisms .

You said -but bacteria are gonna make it no mater
> what... I've been led to believe they are the most prolific and robust
> critters on earth, hmm?
 Soil food web analyses shows low bacterial and low fungi numbers in soils
we work with, this can predispose a plant to Nematode damage root rots etc.
So we have to boost beneficials including bacteria.
I am not suggesting in any way that this is what others should be doing.
This is an area of research that has real value for areas where Molasses is
readily available and cheap. Molasses has the other great advantage of going
through drip irrigation easily. Fish hydrolysate will not.

I have a question you may be able to help me with.
Fletcher Sims in his book on composting says that compost is 7 times more
effective, or more valuable, than raw manure.
Does any one have data on this that would verify this statement???
Regards Mike Harvey www.composttea.com.au


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Leonard" <kirk_at_oregonatural.com>
> Mike et al -- I gotta push back some here, not getting why so much
molasses,
> which is not to suggest it's bad. Just curious. It's expensive, bulky,
> sticky,
> yucky stuff and tricky with DO, and it still doesn't seem to me bacteria
> need all that much help in tea. Doc, anyone, am I wrong in thinking the
vast
> majority of reproductive activity in tea is going to be done by bacteria,
no
> matter what? Why so much molasses?
>
> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:31:41 +0800
> > From: "Mike Harvey" <mharvey_at_westnet.com.au>
> > Subject: Re: Re: Re: Worm Food & Molasses
> >
> > The work done on Molasses CT by Dr E showed very high bacterial numbers
> > with corresponding good to excellent fungi, Basidiomycete dominated (if
> my
> > memory serves me correctly). <
> So it's specifically basidiomycete fungi being sought via molasses
> concentration? Are they rare? I don't know. If fungi grow but don't
> reproduce in tea, seems like we're still relying on what's in the compost,
> not the molasses. Are there not other ways to prep or stimulate
> basidiomycetes?
>
> > This type of work with molasses can only be done with the correct
> equipment
> > ie highly efficient O2 transfer ( I use very efficient membrane
diffusers)
> > with large volumes of air. Reliable DO meter is required. <
> Agree. What diffusers are you using? But again, I have to ask, are the
> large air volume, electric, equipment and molasses expenses, DO risks
worth
> it? I tend to think not for most tea makers.
>
> > [How to] introduce food for the critters without excessive cost??
Molasses
> could be
> > used through the drip line however if it is not "pre composted" it may
> cause
> > an increase in pathogenic organisms?? <
> Compost or mulches or greens turned in sure seem less expensive than
> molasses, and again, why do you want to feed molasses, in this case alone?
> Is there some secret here you're not revealing? What are you actually
> growing? Ya, there seems a pathogen risk and pretty much anywhere you put
> it there's a bacterial boost, but bacteria are gonna make it no mater
> what... I've been led to believe they are the most prolific and robust
> critters on earth, hmm?
>
> > So I believe there is a clear role for Molasses CT above 5%. This would
> > provide the right organisms as well as food source thus improving the
> > success rate in using AACT. Note we use Humic acid as well as the
Molasses
> > tea. <
> Still don't buy it unless you have massive air capacity, which on top of
the
> cost of molasses doesn't seem either economic or necessary, or safe for
> small makers other than in smaller proportion. Regards to you and look
> forward to being more informed, too.
>
> -- Kirk L
>
>
>
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Received on Tue Oct 28 2003 - 22:09:31 EST

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