Re: [compost_tea] Re: Re: Tea and powdery mildew

From: David Anderson <squtch_at_gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:23:48 -0700
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:56:41 EDT, soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
<soilfoodweb_at_aol.com> wrote:

> Hi Dave Squtch -
>  
> There's a huge diversity of organisms in compost, and most species are not
> that widely occurring.  Your statement that "most of the critters in compost
> are pretty ubiquitous, but the chemical inputs vary greatly from location to
> location." just doesn't hold up to the data becoming available.

I think you missed my point.

My point was that, while the microbiology is incredibly important, it
is *bad science* to only look at that variable without looking at
other variables  like the macrobiology, chemistry or the physical
aspects.

This list has become so hooked on the wonders of the microbiology that
the other aspects are all to often overlooked.

Your specialty is the microbiology, and you have done a wonderful job
of showing the world what is going on in that area,  but that simply
isn't all that is going on. It is just as big of a mistake to ignore
the chemistry as it was to ignore the biology for all those years.

> The attitude that bacterial species are universal comes from plate count
> methods that have been used since developed by Pasteur and Koch back in the
> 17th century. 

No,  I am not referring to plate count methods, I am actually talking
about different species.

You seem to think that by using ubiquitous, I was somehow meaning
homogenous. Or ubiquitous on a micro level instead of a global level.
If conditions are right for a specific type of bacteria over a
reasonable range and length of time,  that bacteria will find you.

It is my understanding (though admitedly it could be wrong) that the
vast majority microorganism species are in fact ubiquitous, though
their population and activity levels will vay significatly with
differing conditions. There are just far too many transportation
mechanisms available for this not to be the case. It may not grow, and
it may not reproduce,  and it may not survive but that does not mean
that it is not present.

> But, as you suggest, the diversity of foods added into compost is just as
> important as having the diversity of organisms.  BUT, the foods made by any
> one SPECIES of plant is set by its DNA, and thus there is a limited set of
> food resources that any plant species can produce.  To get diversity of food
> resources in compost, or tea, you have to add different species of plants.

Yup.

But what I was suggesting was that different feedstock can lead to
several differences, not just the biology.

Plant species, and therefore the feedstock for your compost, are much
less ubiquitious than the microbiology. And if a specific pathogen
does not like a chemical in the leaves of Big Leaf Maples, then my
compost will have a major advantage over compost made in Arizona

Of course, it could just as easily be a microcritter that happens to
like Big Leaf Maple leaves that is having the effect.

All I'm saying is that we all need to make sure that we aren't wearing
blinders when we are trying to figure these things out.

> That means, protecting plant surfaces with the organisms, so diseases cannot
> establish on the leaf surfaces, so you see improvment in soil tilth, so your
> shovel goes into the soil without a struggle. 

Oh how I wish the shovel would go into the soil without a struggle.
But those darn bacteria are just taking their sweet time eating those
rocks, even with the improving soil.

> Add the foods that grow Trichoderma.  What does Trichoderma eat?  Other
> fungi.  No Trichoderma?  It means you don't have good fungi.  So, fungal
> foods, and make sure you have a good diversity of fungal species in the
> pile.  Go collecting.  Handfuls of soil or leaf material from whereever you
> can find fungal strands.

Now that I have plenty offrom the wooded parts of my lot. Plenty of
rotting fir, hemlock and maple apears to make the fungi happy.

> Can you tell I'm on vacation?  Time to answer things in detail!

Sounds like you deserve it. You've been rather busy lately. Enjoy.

Dave

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Received on Wed Oct 27 2004 - 16:58:10 EDT

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