RE: [compost_tea] Re: back pack sprayers to use for compost teas?

From: John Cowan <vivax_at_northlink.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:38:25 -0700

Why not circulate some dilute hydrogen peroxide to kill and dissolve the
bacterial slime? The hydrogen peroxide solution could be greatly diluted
after cleaning [< 0.01%] and the solution used for further brewing.

John Cowan
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
  Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:10 PM
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: back pack sprayers to use for compost teas?


  I thought that copper plumbing was desired becasue in a PH neutral
environment, copper degraded less than lead or PVC. What does the
concentration of 3ppm do? Would this occur in a PH 7 tea that was in the
sprayer for a brief time? I would think that bacterial and fungal death
from nozzle turbidity would be far more than the few microbes killed by a
small amount of copper leeched from a tank wall.

  When we spayed for grapes, we used a tank that had previously used
fungicide. Now, we cleaned it thoroughly but there is little doubt that
some of the residuals remained. After all, we couldn't crawl inside the
spray tank and clean each and every corner and small hole. Yet, we got
adequate coverage on the grapes.

  I do believe in cleaning right after brewing. When I look at some of the
commercial brewers on the market and ones Elain recommends, I notice that
they use a system of piping and tubes to move the water. Now, I have done
testing with these systems and find that they are almost impossible to clean
correctly. One reason is that anytime liquid moves past an angle or even a
slow bend, the liquid towards the inner or smaller radius moves slower than
the liquid near the outer radius. This causes a situation where some of the
material moving through the liquid settles and builds up near the inner
radius. This is especially crucial on 45 and 90 degree angles. So that
means that some anaerobes will build up in those areas. Unless each and
every pipe is cleaned and sterilized thoroughly right after use, there will
be build up.

  I don't think this is a big problem if the volume of aerobes is sufficient
to get the tea to do what you intend the tea to do. Of course, if you don't
clean at all, there could be an eventual problem with highly anaerobic tea.
The functional aerobes would be there but at some point the anaerobes would
outcompete them for food.

  Even a normal brewing process produces some anaerobes. I don't see how to
eliminate them totally. What I want to do is create an environment that
favors the aerobes so they naturally outcompete the anaerobes.

  One of the experiments I did was to heat the water to 80 degrees. The
bacteria did grow and DO showed activity. However, I was making an
environment that favored pathogens rather than functional aerobes and that
was not my intention.

  Another thing about temperature. In the winter, the bacteria that grow
and function in the 70 degree range are dormant (so to speak) and other
bacteria are functional. To brew tea at 70 - 75 degree range and then apply
it in a temperature of 55 degrees gives them little chance of survival in
the wild. So I try to get the tea water temp not more than 5 - 6 degrees
higher than the outside air temp. That way, the bacteria (I think) have a
better chance of survival.

  I do know about switchers and other forms of low-temp bacteria but I have
to rely on my compost to give me enough diversity and my brewing methadology
to give me successful bacterial/fungal growth while keeping within the
constraints of my site (where I'm putting the tea) environment. As Elaine
says, it's all a matter of balance.

  Spraying bacteria that thrive in 70 degrees into an environment that is 55
degrees almost guarantees that they will not survive in sufficient numbers
to do much good as far as I can tell by my research. I'm willing to be
educated if I am wrong about this so if someone (Elaine?) has some data to
the contrary, I am willing to completely change my methadology.

  Ted Peterson
  Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth



  ----- Original Message -----
    From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
    To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:48 AM
    Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: back pack sprayers to use for compost
teas?


    Hi Ted -

    It's the concentration of copper in the water when the tank is copper.
The critical concentration is 3 ppm. In a tank of copper, that
concentration can occur just by simple equilibrium with water. Copper
fittings are much less likely to result in copper reaching a toxic level.

    But your thoughts about the biological decomposition of surfaces should
be taken to heart. Why do we clean tanks between each run? To prevent the
anaerobes from building up and resulting in exactly the kinds of problems
you were talking about.

    Elaine Ingham
    President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
    SFI Corvallis, OR
    SFI Port Jefferson, NY
    SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
    SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
    SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
    www.soilfoodweb.com


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Received on Tue Dec 16 2003 - 20:17:04 EST

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